Unarmed Florida Teen Shot

[MJS]

Or if you have an aggressive person stalking or following you ....

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How is that following, when the person stops and tells dispatch that he doesn't know where the guy ran, and is heading back to his truck. The other person forgoes going home to safety and then circles around to confront the other person?

But didn't GZ only say that after he lost sight of TM? Again, I was under the impression that there was at least 1 time when they were fairly close to each other.

 

[punisher73]

Forgive me for asking this, as its been a while and this thread is huge, but wasn't there some point in which GZ was close enough to TM to physically see him? If thats the case, and GZ was that concerned as to who TM was, he probably could've easily yelled to him. Another reason I say this is because IIRC, TM did notice that he was being followed. Didn't he mention that to his girlfriend, while he was on the phone? I got the impression that TM knew that someone was behind him, just that he wasn't sure who was following him.

Yes, my point wasn't clear. GZ followed and then lost TM, who was right at the house he was going to. GZ then started heading back to his truck, and TM then circled back and then confronted GZ. Up to this point, there was no confrontation between the two. If TM would have just gone home instead of playing macho none of this would have happened.

 

[MJS]

Yes, my point wasn't clear. GZ followed and then lost TM, who was right at the house he was going to. GZ then started heading back to his truck, and TM then circled back and then confronted GZ. Up to this point, there was no confrontation between the two. If TM would have just gone home instead of playing macho none of this would have happened.

I agree. TM did not have to circle back. Of course, GZ could have just hung back and called the cops and let them do their jobs. GZ seems to be well known to the cops, as he seems to have called quite a bit. I'm sure the cops are familiar with the area, the problems, etc. I wonder what the odds are, of the cops being even the slightest bit familiar with TM. My point is...if the cops know who the person is, if GZ knows who the person is, then couldnt the cops just follow up at a later time?

 

[Tgace]

I agree. TM did not have to circle back. Of course, GZ could have just hung back and called the cops and let them do their jobs. GZ seems to be well known to the cops, as he seems to have called quite a bit. I'm sure the cops are familiar with the area, the problems, etc. I wonder what the odds are, of the cops being even the slightest bit familiar with TM. My point is...if the cops know who the person is, if GZ knows who the person is, then couldnt the cops just follow up at a later time?

Follow up on what?


It seems that GZ thought that TM was possibly going to commit a burglary or steal a car....or possibly commit some other crime. It wasn't like GZ was trying to tackle TM....just keep him in sight.

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[punisher73]

I agree. TM did not have to circle back. Of course, GZ could have just hung back and called the cops and let them do their jobs. GZ seems to be well known to the cops, as he seems to have called quite a bit. I'm sure the cops are familiar with the area, the problems, etc. I wonder what the odds are, of the cops being even the slightest bit familiar with TM. My point is...if the cops know who the person is, if GZ knows who the person is, then couldnt the cops just follow up at a later time?

I don't think GZ knew who it was. TM was just at the house and didn't live in the neighborhood. GZ never identified that he knew who TM was and didn't even identify him as a "black male" until much later. GZ was trying to keep him in sight and lost him and told dispatch as much.

 

[Wo Fat]

Yes, my point wasn't clear. GZ followed and then lost TM, who was right at the house he was going to. GZ then started heading back to his truck, and TM then circled back and then confronted GZ. Up to this point, there was no confrontation between the two. If TM would have just gone home instead of playing macho none of this would have happened.

If GZ--the adult who was asked by the authorities to stand down--had done so, instead of playing macho and acting like Barney Fife on 'roids, then TM--the minor who was in a place where he had a lawful right to be--would not be dead at 17 years young.

 

[ballen0351]

If GZ--the adult who was asked by the authorities to stand down--had done so, instead of playing macho and acting like Barney Fife on 'roids, then TM--the minor who was in a place where he had a lawful right to be--would not be dead at 17 years young.

Zimmerman had a lawful right to be where he was as also.

 

[Tgace]

If GZ--the adult who was asked by the authorities to stand down--had done so, instead of playing macho and acting like Barney Fife on 'roids, then TM--the minor who was in a place where he had a lawful right to be--would not be dead at 17 years young.

So from now on, if you see something suspicious just ignore it? Is that what you are saying? Maybe call 911 but don't keep the suspicious person in sight because thats "stalking"? Really?

 

[shesulsa]

Sigh *beats dead horse*

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[Tgace]

Does anybody really know just how close GZ ever was to TM while he was supposedly "stalking" him?

 

[shesulsa]

Close enough for him to tell his girlfriend about it and for Zimmerman to call out to him.

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[MJS]

Follow up on what?


It seems that GZ thought that TM was possibly going to commit a burglary or steal a car....or possibly commit some other crime. It wasn't like GZ was trying to tackle TM....just keep him in sight.

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Many times, if the suspect eludes the cops, but they have an idea who it is, rather than spend fruitless hours trying to catch the guy at that moment, follow up later. For example...a few days ago at work, we took a call from someone who saw a guy walking around an empty house. They also heard glass breaking. They gave us a good description of the guy. Multiple units, including a K9 went to the scene, yet this guy gave them the slip. However, going on witness description among other things, they narrowed down the suspect. Since he gave them the slip at that moment, they were simply going to follow up later, by typing a warrant for the dirtbags arrest. Well, as luck would have it, they didn't need to go that far, because a few hours later, a cop on patrol, saw the guy, wearing different clothing, and arrested him.

So thats what I meant by follow up later.

 

[MJS]

I don't think GZ knew who it was. TM was just at the house and didn't live in the neighborhood. GZ never identified that he knew who TM was and didn't even identify him as a "black male" until much later. GZ was trying to keep him in sight and lost him and told dispatch as much.

That may very well be the case. If that area is anything like where I work, we take calls all the time, for suspicious people walking in the area. I guess the main point is...GZ did not have to do anything more than call it in. He took it upon himself to follow TM. This may've been asked/answered before, I dont know, but I'll ask again. What was TM doing that was suspicious?

 

[Tgace]

I don't know if I want this whole situation to turn into a "dont get involved" scenario. I see nothing wrong with keeping an eye on a suspicious person and relaying that info to the cops. Chasing people through yards or getting involved in car chases? Of course not, but this seems to be getting twisted by peoples preconceptions.

 

[Tgace]

This may've been asked/answered before, I dont know, but I'll ask again. What was TM doing that was suspicious?

How would any of us know?

 

[MJS]

If GZ--the adult who was asked by the authorities to stand down--had done so, instead of playing macho and acting like Barney Fife on 'roids, then TM--the minor who was in a place where he had a lawful right to be--would not be dead at 17 years young.

Zimmerman had a lawful right to be where he was as also.

So from now on, if you see something suspicious just ignore it? Is that what you are saying? Maybe call 911 but don't keep the suspicious person in sight because thats "stalking"? Really?

As I've said, I take these calls DAILY, where I work. Suspicious m/v, susp. person, you name it. I take the info, enter the call and send a cop. However, as we all should know, calls like this, are not a high priority, sad as that may seem. The public has no conception of anything other than what they're calling for, at that moment. Those that're LEOs should know and understand that very well. I've taken calls from people who're following someone suspected of DUI. I ask for a plate, and if they wish to file an official complaint. However, I DO NOT encourage them to continue following the car. I will NOT be held responsible for them driving like an *******, just to keep up with someone who may/may not be drunk.

No, I dont think anyone is against GZ calling the cops. I could care less...call them 50 times a day, I dont give a ****. No, my point is, GZ was told not to follow, he disregarded. He played hero, and ended up losing. If both parties had every right to be in that area, as so many claim, then what was so suspicious about TM? Was he guilty of walking while being black? Standing in an area while being black? Was the kid just loitering? Not the crime of the century. Again, happens daily. Send a cop, move them along.

 

[MJS]

I don't know if I want this whole situation to turn into a "dont get involved" scenario. I see nothing wrong with keeping an eye on a suspicious person and relaying that info to the cops. Chasing people through yards or getting involved in car chases? Of course not, but this seems to be getting twisted by peoples preconceptions.

Agreed. By all means, if you someone sees something odd, call it in. Hell, when people start threads on here, and ask if you'd get involved in a physical disturbance between 2 people,, I'm the first to say no, but instead, call the cops, and be a good witness. But common sense should also play a part in that. Don't do something thats going to put your safety at risk, IMO.

How would any of us know?

We probably don't. I just figured I'd take a stab and see if anyone knew. Seems like there're really only 2 people who knew what went on that night...GZ and TM. One of them is dead, and the other, unless he really was stupid, isn't going to say anything to incriminate himself anymore than he already has.

 

[billc]

As has been pointed out before, he was never told to stop following martin, he was told it wasn't necessary for him to do it and from the 911 call you can apparently here him stop. That is also the point where he claims to have turned around to go back to his truck and then encountered martin. Martin, as has been pointed out, may very well have circled back to confront zimmerman, instead of going to his father's girlfriends condo/townhome. Zimmerman wasn't breaking the law, he lived in the enclosed community and at this point we still don't know for sure who instigated the actual physical violence.

 

[shesulsa]

AND he lied about his ability to post bail and afford an attorney. This angel-of-the-night.

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[granfire]

AND he lied about his ability to post bail and afford an attorney. This angel-of-the-night.

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Both had dirty wings and stained halos.

Just like real life people....