Unarmed Florida Teen Shot

[MJS]

I'm sure everyone has heard about this case. There are numerous links, so I'll post a few.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...shooting-death-of-florida-teen-trayvon-martin

In the wake of spreading public outrage, the Justice Department and the FBI have opened an investigation into the shooting of a black teenager by a Florida neighborhood watch captain who escaped arrest.

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More than 435,000 people, many alerted by tweets from celebrities such as movie director Spike Lee and musician Wyclef Jean, signed a petition on Change.org, a social action website, calling for the arrest of the shooter, George Zimmerman.
The Justice Department's Civil Rights Division and the FBI announced on Monday that they have opened an investigation into the shooting in Florida of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, who was unarmed when he was killed.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/46781618

The family of a Florida teen fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer last month is speaking out, saying that the shooting was unprovoked —and racially motivated.
Trayvon Martin, 17, was killed by George Zimmerman in a Sanford, Fla., gated community on the evening of Feb. 26 as he returned from a trip to a local 7-Eleven. Martin and his father were visiting family friends there. Zimmerman claimed he shot Martin in self defense, and has not been charged with a crime.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...-complicate-trayvon-martin-teen-shooting-case

Florida’s 2005 “Stand Your Ground” law, which says a citizen doesn’t have to retreat before using deadly force against an attacker, could throw a legal wrinkle into the case of a neighborhood watch captain who shot to death an unarmed black teenager.
Police in the central Florida town of Sanford have said that 28-year-old George Zimmerman says he shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in self-defense during a confrontation in a gated community. Police have described Zimmerman as white; his family says he is Hispanic and not racist.

Does this sound like a justified shooting?

 

[granfire]

I just briefly looked away when it came on in the news....

There are soo many odd things....

I, personally, will wait for the movie to come out.

However it seems to me that the roles have been assigned. Nothing new, nothing surprising...

 

[billc]

Does the victim have a police record? I ask because all too often, the "my son never did anything wrong," turns out to be a long criminal record. I would like to know all the facts, and not just the spike lee facts, before we determine what may have actually happened. An attacker doesn't have to be armed to kill you. Do we know the victim was unarmed yet? Or is that just what people are saying?

 

[granfire]

Armed with a pack of skittles from what I gathered...

 

[Big Don]

Zimmerman, the shooter, is Hispanic, by the way. But, apparently, when it suits their purpose, Hispanics are Caucasian...

 

[David43515]

It`s almost impossible to tell if it`s justified or not because the article gives almost no info on the shooting itself. I`m going to assume that if the police didn`t make an arrest at the scene that it`s not cut and dried. Let them investigate and let the DA`s office decide whether it`s self defense or not. As much as I enjoy his work, I don`t think that Spike Lee is qualified to make that call if he has no more info than was in your news article. (And what ever happened to journalism based on facts? That story was so full of opinion it made my skin crawl.)

 

[ballen0351]

biggest problem zimmerman is going to have is he was told to stop following the kid the police were on the way. He ignored them and confronted the kid.

 

[WC_lun]

Some things really do look...odd. From what I've seen in the media, the kid was not one to get in trouble. No record. He was unarmed, carrying Skittles and a bottle of ice tea. Zimmerman on the other hand carried a 9mm, called 911 42 times in 12 months with a majority of those because black youths were either in the neighborhood or at the gate, Zimmerman was told not to follow or confront the victim, and witnesses say right after the shooting Zimmerman was standing over the kid, feet straddling him. Now obviously we aren't privy to all the information, but with what I've seen so far, it would be hard to believe he was in fear for his life or acted with appropriate force.

I don't think even with the Florida law you get to force a confrontation then shoot the person forced into the confrontation with you in "self defense."

 

[granfire]

Zimmerman, the shooter, is Hispanic, by the way. But, apparently, when it suits their purpose, Hispanics are Caucasian...

Don't you remember? The FBI statistics has them as caucasians in the statistics.

 

[IcemanSK]

Zimmerman was told to back off by the police dispatcher to which he said, "ok." Then he shot this unarmed kid. Self defense? Not in anyone's book.

 

[Big Don]

Don't you remember? The FBI statistics has them as caucasians in the statistics.

Uh huh, which makes all the BS about "Racism" against illegals go away, right?

 

[crushing]

Don't you remember? The FBI statistics has them as caucasians in the statistics.

FBI statistics have nothing to do with media driven narratives regarding race relations. I have no doubt that if Zimmerman was instead in the news for his enthusiastic support of President Obama the media would label him a Hispanic voter.

 

[elder999]

Does the victim have a police record?

No.

In fact, Zimmerman was charged with battery against on officer and resisting arrest in 2005, a charge which was later expunged.

I ask because all too often, the "my son never did anything wrong," turns out to be a long criminal record.

I know why you ask.

I would like to know all the facts

You're probably not going to like them any more than I do, though not for the same reasons.

, and not just the spike lee facts,

Really?. Huh.

That must be why you ask.

before we determine what may have actually happened. An attacker doesn't have to be armed to kill you. Do we know the victim was unarmed yet? Or is that just what people are saying?

As gran said, armed with a bag of Skittles and a can of Arizona Ice Tea

On the phone with his girlfriend when the confrontation occurred-told her he was being followed. Local PD-who didn't charge Zimmerman, or drug/alcohol test him, or impound his car-refused testimony from girlfriend.

Local PD ignored or refused several 9-11 callers that were local residents reporting the confrontation and shooting as saying that the boy (who was outweighed by Zimmerman by about 100lbs.) screamed for help right before Zimmerman shot him.. In fact, they assume that it was Zimmerman screaming for help, and even told one witness, a school teacher who said-and is still saying-that she heard the boy screaming for help, that what she'd heard was Zimmerman screaming for help.

Local PD sent a narcotics detective, instead of a homicide detective, who local witnesses describe as questioning Zimmerman, instead of letting him tell his story.

Local PD kept boys body in morgue as a "John Doe," for two days, even though they had a missing persons report from the boy's father, 'and had the boy's cell phone. REALLY.

Local PD ignored-oh, "missed"-racial slur from Zimmerman in his initial 9-11 call, "****ing coons."

I'd wager that the boy's parents are going to own that town, never mind Zimmerman-who may never be charged- but it won't bring their son back.

 

[MJS]

I think the FBIs stats are a bit ****ed up! LOL! All of the stories that I've heard so far, have pointed to this kid being unarmed. Of course, the kid could be an ax murderer, and his parents would probably still say, "Oh he's a good kid. He was on the basketball team, did well in school....." Of course, I dont know the kid, so who knows...good, bad, I don't know. In any case, the shooter sounds like a volunteer wanna-be cop. Probably can't pass the test to be a real cop, so he's a neighborhood watch square badge tool. He also sounds like someone who shouldn't have a gun. Sorry, but pulling a gun on someone unarmed seems a bit overkill. Now, if the other kid had a weapon, sure, I could justify that.

Nothing wrong with a watch patrol, but they tend to forget they're not cops. They're simply members of the community they live in, who want to be vigilant of crime in their neighborhood. That doesnt give them the right to chase after someone, confront someone, arrest someone, etc. You wanna play hero fine, but know the line is drawn at calling the cops and being a good witness.

 

[seasoned]

Eyes and ears only, for sure.

 

[elder999]

Nothing wrong with a watch patrol, but they tend to forget they're not cops. They're simply members of the community they live in, who want to be vigilant of crime in their neighborhood. That doesnt give them the right to chase after someone, confront someone, arrest someone, etc. You wanna play hero fine, but know the line is drawn at calling the cops and being a good witness.

Apparently, Zimmerman is a self-appointed neighborhood watch of one.

 

[Steve]

I wasn't there, so I don't know all of the facts. The article I read mentioned that he was on the phone with his girlfriend and was worried about the guy who was following him. At worst, this is a despicable bigot who killed an innocent young man. At best, it's two scared people who overreacted. Either way, it's a really said indictment of where we are as a country.

 

[elder999]

I wasn't there, so I don't know all of the facts. The article I read mentioned that he was on the phone with his girlfriend and was worried about the guy who was following him. At worst, this is a despicable bigot who killed an innocent young man. At best, it's two scared people who overreacted. Either way, it's a really said indictment of where we are as a country.

Leaving aside all the evidence there seems to be of police procedural errors, if not downright misconduct, I don't think an unarmed, innocent 17 year old boy can "overreact" to an armed stranger following him in a car and accosting him. This is the kind of thing we all are warned about as children, the kind of thing we warn our own children about. It's the kind of thing "neighborhood watches" are supposed to protect children against. If anything, the kid underreacted: he told his girlfriend he wasn't going to run like she told him to, but that he would walk fast.

Kid should have run like hell, instead of dying 70 yards from his dad's home.

 

[billc]

As to the body being in the morgue two days...it happens because it is a government agency, prone to laziness and corruption...

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/metro/cook-county-medical-examiner-morgue-employees-fired-bodies-stacked-scandal-20120224

An overhaul of the morgue was launched in January after problems came to light, including more than 300 bodies improperly stored in the cooler.

Staff also complained about bodily fluids pooling on the floor of the cooler, exposing employees to blood-born pathogens. The Illinois Department of Labor has launched its own investigation of workplace safety at the morgue.

They will be lucky if only one body waits two days to be identified or the relatives notified...

 

[billc]

Hmmmm...this is a question for the law enforcement officers here on martialtalk in relation to this thread. Is it uncommon for the family of a shooting victim to claim the victim was "a good boy who never hurt anyone," only to find out that in reality the individual did in fact have a criminal record? Just asking?