UK home defence

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by pdg, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    no I didnt say the police told him samurais are illegal, nor did I say importing and selling them is not illegal. ??

    putting up items for sale on eBay as proof that things are not illegal doesn't really work, eBay is full of things which are illegal in the uk, they are either breaking the law or in another jurisdiction and don't care
     
  2. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    That is just wrong. Clearly these people have never been taught any kind of respect or morality. Whacking them over the head with a tire iron while they are stealing my TV would be a good start in teaching them that what they are doing is wrong on every human level.
     
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  3. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Sigh, do keep up. You said the police were wrong,however they didn't say anything it was the householder/writer that said it, so you are incorrect.
    You also ignored the British firm selling imports which aren't genuine samurai swords quite legally. Not unless you consider chinses made 35 quid swords to be genuine Japanese ones.

    Interesting too that you went off in a huff telling everyone you were putting me on ignore, guess that's not true either :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:rolleyes::D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
     
  4. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    I said the police were wrong, I. didn't say they said anything, genuine sw!ords are legal it's the 35 quid Chinese one that are not, and those are only illegal to import/ sell, hence why the police were wrong to take his sword off him for consideration
     
  5. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    The £35 pound Chinese sword is perfectly legal to buy as I have shown. It's on the perfectly legal British website I posted up.
    You said the police were wrong despite not having any statements from them. Of course they weren't wrong, they have to cross the Ts and dot the Is to make sure there is no legal comeback on the householder. if they hadn't people like you would have claimed they were sloppy and didn't know their jobs.
     
  6. Rat

    Rat Black Belt

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    As far as i know the law to be cited for curved blades, any blade above 50CM in length and curved is banned UNLESS It is a antique or traditionally made. (which can be provable if it was made before X period defined in law or you get a certificate from manufacturer to state its been made traditionally, thank god there are still forges which do Japanese swords like that)

    And that is a paraphrase off the government website in regard to. There might be the religious reason defence claus in there for it. (i think that applies to all weapons on the banned weapon list and other wise restricted ones as a defence in court)

    (i will edit this post or post under it with a citation to the banned weapon list)

    Selling, buying and carrying knives

    ( "swords, including samurai swords - a curved blade over 50cm (with some exceptions, such as antiques and swords made to traditional methods before 1954)" The actual quote)
     
  7. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    which will be why the police took the sword for examination and having found it legal gave it back. As usual Jobo is just looking to be argumentative, that and he hates the police.

    The site I posted which sells legal swords in the UK.
    Swords, Blades UK, Sword, knives, Martial Arts, Samurai, Samuri, Lord Rings, Movie Collectables
     
  8. DaveB

    DaveB Master Black Belt

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    The first thing that needs to be understood is that being arrested DOESN'T MEAN YOU DID SOMETHING WRONG.

    People are arrested to facilitate investigation. A man died, that needs to be investigated. Forensic evidence needs to be collected, not least from the man's clothing, statements from witnesses and the suspect need to be taken. It's almost a certainty that the old man spent little to no time in a cell and would have been returned home at the earliest convenience.

    Sadly we can't just let police decide guilt or innocence based on appearance.
     
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  9. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    TCA 40-7-103 is just one of many rules that say otherwise. 2010 Tennessee Code :: Title 40 - Criminal Procedure :: Chapter 7 - Arrest :: :: Part 1 - General Provisions :: :: 40-7-103 - Grounds for arrest by officer without warrant.
     
  10. DaveB

    DaveB Master Black Belt

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  11. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. Rat

    Rat Black Belt

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    Im aware, i was being impartial and was only citing a government source the law in question. Plus i was looking at getting a 49-47cm long curved blade pending how far i wanted to push the judicial system to avoid the 50cm ban. ;)

    The irony about it is, i think they pushed for the ban because a MP got attacked by one and saw you could buy katanas and other asian swords at basically any seaside market store. But if you go to the seaside, you can still buy them just the legal ones. Gone from 71CM wall hanger junk to sub 50cm wall hanger junk, but that's as far as i can bend the politics rule. :p

    Depends who you ask. :p
     
  13. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    That's not quite the reason, there was a councillor killed in the office of an MP, who was also injured 8 years ago but that's not the sole reason these fakes were banned. There had been a lot of attacks using these fake swords which were flooding into the country. There was also the issue of fraud/counterfeit crime in that many were being sold as 'genuine'. Genuine katanas ( I don't know why the media insist on calling them samurai swords instead of the proper name) aren't banned and the Japanese makers are happy with us stopping the flow of the cheap nasty fake ones to the UK. A lot of consultation took place with a wide range of people including martial artists.
    This from 10 years ago. BBC NEWS | UK | Ban on samurai swords becomes law
     
  14. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    I will take out "young" legal system. Flawed as it is.
     
  15. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Just trying to give some wise perspective.
     
  16. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    You'd take it out where? the pub?
    The problem, though it's not really a problem as such if you only stay in one place, is that from what I've seen is that each state seems to have different laws which makes it difficult in discussions like this to pin down what someone should do in case they were attacked. We have some differences by country but these are quite clearly written on legal and government sites so you know the grounds for prosecution etc. I imagine if you move from state to state on business or holiday it could get very confusing.
     
  17. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    There are, literally, dozens of books about the subject here in the U.S. Authors such as Mas Ayoob's "Deadly Force - Understanding Your Right To Self Defense" and Andrew Branca's "The Law of Self Defense" are both excellent but there are tons more.

    And you can find most of the information contained in them on various blogs, forums, and articles.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  18. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    We have info from the CPS though, the actual people who prosecute for the Crown, much better than opinion pieces. The QC who wrote and included that info is an expert not someone with an opinion.
     
  19. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Fair enough. To be clear, Ayoob is a certified Expert Witness, lecturer, and recently retired cop. Branca is a well known defense lawyer in the field. Both are most certainly experts, FWIW.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  20. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    My point though is that we have definitive guidance for all, police, public and the legal profession but how does that work when your laws appear to be different in each state?
    Police officers aren't really experts in law, they do their job, the prosecution/defence is other people's jobs.
     

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