UK home defence

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by pdg, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Firstly, I am not yours or anyone else's buddy. Secondly I know a damn sight more than you obviously do, you have absolutely no idea how much I know, have seen or been through so wind your neck in. You have no idea what you are talking about, making sweeping statements which are pure nonsense. Jobo I can understand, he hates all authority figures, probably because they keep catching him and posts on here for sh!ts and giggles just to wind people up.

    Please do carry on labelling all British police officers in the way you are, it's fine, it's only yourself you are embarrassing. :rolleyes:
     
  2. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Thank you for making me laugh. A military cop eh and a cop, gosh I'm so impressed, and you say that without knowing anything about me. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
     
  3. oldwarrior

    oldwarrior Green Belt

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    grow up ok ....and i very much doubt that you do

    but you carry on in the brill cream boys ok ........
     
  4. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    First and most important is he walked away from the attack. Hell, just walking at 78 is pretty good. I subscribe to the saying "it is easier to as forgiveness than permission".
    Not to get all legal, as officers we were taught about our curtilage, the area immediately around you regardless of where you are. In a SD situation that area is physically and legally fair game. Maybe that is different by country.
     
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  5. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm super late to the party here...but if someone is arrested for murder, can the charge not be changed in the courts to a manslaughter charge, during the trial? I believe it works that way in the US (people on drug charges at least essentially barter there charges before sentencing), not sure if murder is a special case or if the UK is different. If they can, why would it matter what charge someone is initially arrested for?

    If I somehow got arrested for a murder (when all I did was jaywalk), and then when it went to court the judge or DA or whomever reevaluated the charge and it changed to jaywalking, that 'murder' arrest wouldn't be anywhere on my record, and I wouldn't particularly care what the LEO felt fit to arrest me for.

    I'm not a lawyer, LEO, or anything legal related, so all my assumptions regarding this may be wrong, or I may have missed a post explaining it, but I honestly don't see the issue here.
     
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  6. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Semi-related, but reading this reminded me of the fictional story of Ronald Opus.

    Legal definitions are way more complicated than merriam-wester, unfortunately.
     
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  7. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Police officers everywhere will understand.

    lush.jpg
     
  8. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    There's a whole load of issues there, first an arrest any arrest stays on your record, if it's a totally stupid arrest Like say your arrested for murder and the person is still alive,you can get it expunged, but if you are say defending yourself And someone dies, then that murder arrest stays with you for ever, if you apply for a job and they do a check, they will find out.

    Yes you can be charged with murder and convicted of manslaughter, commonly that's the defence Put forward. We don't have plea bargains here, at least not officialy. Not do we have murder by different degrees, it's either murder of it isnt, if it isn't then it might be manslaughter or it may not, they sent alternatives i n that it's one of the other.

    The issue, is can you defend a) yourself and b) your home Deadly force, The answer is maybe to the first and definitely not to the second, unlike the state's killing burglars that didn't pose a an imminent risk to your actual life is frowned upon. There have been lots of people who were defending their life, who have been dragged though a court case , that effectively spoils their life for ever, even though as it turns out, they did no wrong, in this case the amount of public sympathy for the guy, meant they dropped very quickly, others may not be so lucky

    For instance a decade ago, I was as a completely innocent party attacked, by a group of men, 5to be exact, I defended myself robustly, beat of the attack using a pool cue, I was carrying as I had just been playing pool, and then called the police. The police's response to a citizen defending himself against an unprovoked attack, was to arrest me for wounding, then and then charge me and send me to coyrt, at court they just DROpped the case , in five min, literally, which is good, however that arrest and charge has prevented me from getting several jobs in the decade since
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
  9. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Wow really? Even after it's dropped/proved innocent, there's no way to get it expunged or sealed? That's messed up.
     
  10. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Things can be considered 'spent' and you don't have to declare them for most things, but they'll still show on a search.

    As far as I'm aware, once it's on record it stays on record...

    As an example: when I was 14 at school I found a cigarette lighter on the playing field, unbeknownst to me it had been turned up so the flame was about 18" long. I was messing about flicking it (because it wouldn't light) until it did light and singed a girl's eyebrows and a small bit of her hair.

    The school massively overreacted and wouldn't accept anything other than me being interviewed under caution.

    It was accepted as an accident by everyone (the girl, her parents, the police) involved and completely dropped.

    It's still on my record, all lonely by itself...
     
  11. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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  12. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    If it ever caused me any issues I'd maybe have looked into whether anything could've been done, but that's never happened.

    Even when I had all the checks done for working with children, the elderly and vulnerable adults (for a job a while ago) it didn't raise any questions.

    It got mentioned in a firearms application, but again didn't cause any issue.
     
  13. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Oh, and it hasn't had any effect on getting unaccompanied clearance for MOD sites either (RAF, army, DLO) nor hindered getting the contracts.
     
  14. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    They let anyone into them lol. :D the Navy though will body search you, not because they need to they just like to.


    ( no, not really!)
     
  15. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    He must have had a lousy attorney.
     
  16. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Even with a good one it wouldn't have made a difference.

    For a start, "attorney" means a completely different thing here (since 1873 anyway)...

    And for another thing, you are aware that laws are different around the world as to how records are kept, right?
     
  17. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    It doesnt work that way here.

    just Before my arrest for defending my self, I didn't have a" record" of any kind, this caused the police to arrest me, at a traFic stop, as they didn't believe ( based on social stereo typing) I had no record and so I must be lying about my details, which thenGAVe me a record , You only have to have not done anything at all to get arrested it seems
     
  18. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    No you're right you don't but the police must have reasons to believe the person they arrest has either done something or believe that if they don't arrest the person will not co-operate. Arrest isn't being charged, once the situation is resolved, the police can de-arrest.
     
  19. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    Well no, theY only need ( reasonable)suspicion not belief, which is a lot lower burden to establish, and as giving False details at a tragic stop is an offence, arresting you because they suspect the details you've given are false seems to be ok.

    You seem to trivialize , arrest, it's being deprived of your liberty, handcuffed, taken to a police station, locked in a cell for hours and can have on going implication for life and work for years to come. It's not a trivial matter to the person being arrested, particularly, if the only reason for the arrest, is that they don't appear on the pnc as was the case with myself,
     
  20. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    'Trivialise'

    You were presumably in a fight with someone and the police were called. You just see it from your side but when police get a complaint how do they know who to believe when they know nothing of the circumstances, reasons or the persons involved. Most people think the police should believe them before the other person but in reality why should they until the facts have been established. You feel aggrieved because you think the police should have magically seen you were in the right, but it simply cannot work that way.
     

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