UFC & PRIDE What is your opinion?

[Jason Davis]

UFC , Pride FC, ect.

What is your opinion of these types of "no holds barred" fighting competitions?

 

[Jason Davis]

my own personal opinion is that they are not very "no holds barred", and that not very much technique is used in them it's just kind of a sport for brawlers.

Also shouldn't they be able to strike harder than they do with all that training?
just a thought

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

I always have to laugh when i hear that term

"no holds barred" fighting competitions

It sounds like but its not.

They keep putting so many rules in for this and that. If it was really no holds barred fighting do you think they would have so many rules of what you can and can not do ? Noooooooooo..............

If you limit the fighters to what they can and can not do is that really no holds Barred or just a bunch of hype.

I think if you asked some real street fighters who fight in real underground matches about this they would say bring these "no holds barred" fighting competition champions out for a real no holds fight.

I am not advocating death matches just saying with all this hype of
"no holds barred" fighting competitions with tons of rules of what you can and can not do its a bit hypo-critical.

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

UFC , Pride FC, ect.

What is your opinion of these types of "no holds barred" fighting competitions?

 

[markulous]

I like K-1 fighting. In a few years I might try to do that. UFC though is too much ground fighting. I agree they should be able to do more.

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

If you do decide to go for it. The best of luck to you.

I dont want any one to think I am bad mouthing fighters in this area of fighting but i think the marketers are being hypo-critical with it when they label them "no holds barred" fighting competitions

I have a feeling a lot of the fighters would like some more flexibility with that they can do today. If i remember correctly when this started in the past there were less rules and it was closer to the advertisement
"no holds barred" fighting competitions

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

I like K-1 fighting. In a few years I might try to do that. UFC though is too much ground fighting. I agree they should be able to do more.

 

[MJS]

UFC , Pride FC, ect.

What is your opinion of these types of "no holds barred" fighting competitions?

If you date back to the first one, there was actually very few rules. There were rules, dont get me wrong, but you were allowed to do MUCH more than you can do now. As for the contact, if you look closely, you'll see that alot of these guys really get rocked when they get hit. Tank Abbott is a hard puncher and has KO'd many with punches. Keep in mind that just like with boxing, these guys are training for that type of contact, which is ALOT more than you'll ever see in any sparring or sport tournament matches. The difference is, is that they are conditioned to take those hits.

IMO, these fights give you a much closer feeling as to what a real fight is going to be like. Sure, sparring can do the same thing, but look at all the gear that you wear. Look at the areas that you can and cant hit. There are more spots that are NOT allowed then there is allowed. No leg kicks, no hits to the back, and the list goes on. In the NHB, as I said, yes, there are rules, but comparing a sparring match to a NHB match is like comparing a Ford Escort to a Chevy Corvette!!!

Mike

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Well, Jason and Chicago Green Dragon...

Those are some of the most ignorant posts I've ever read on an internet martial arts forum.

First: Now that there are rules to protect the fighters, it's not called "No Holds Barred". It's now called "Mixed Martial Arts" or "MMA" for short.

Second: Of course there are lots of rules. But, there is no one-on-one competition that allows a greater variety of techniques than Pride or UFC.

Third: Have you ever trained with or fought someone who fights in Pride, the UFC, Shooto, King of the Cage, or any of the others? If not, then you don't know what you are talking about. All but the worst of these guys train full contact against boxers, kick boxers, wrestlers, Judokas, Jiu Jitsu fighters, and submission wrestlers. They learn to fight hard standing, clinching, and on the ground. You think these guys can't hit hard? Two words for you guys: Cro Cop! Two more words: Chuck Liddell. I train at a school run by a guy who is undefeated in EFC and Pride. There are other guys there who fight MMA. I have over 30 years of martial arts experience and I have never met better conditioned, more versatile, more deadly fighters in my life.

Fourth: Who are these "real street fighters" and where are these "real underground matches" where Pride and UFC fighters would get whooped. Are these real street fighters better trained than professional MMA fighters? Do they have more endurance? Do they have a larger repertoire of techniques than the pros? Do they hit harder? No. They are not, do not, do not, and do not. The fact is they are the fighters who are not smart enough, disciplined enough, tough enough, or good enough to fight professionally.

Fifth: Where do you think Pro MMA guys come from? Do you think none of them have ever been in a street fight? Do you think that just because they train for professional fights to take place in a ring or cage that they can't pick up a club or a bottle or a knife or a gun?

Now that I am done, you guys should just go back to your mats and practice yoiur deadly kata techniques in the air.

 

[MJS]

Well, Jason and Chicago Green Dragon...

Those are some of the most ignorant posts I've ever read on an internet martial arts forum.

First: Now that there are rules to protect the fighters, it's not called "No Holds Barred". It's now called "Mixed Martial Arts" or "MMA" for short.

Thats correct. The name has been changed.

Second: Of course there are lots of rules. But, there is no one-on-one competition that allows a greater variety of techniques than Pride or UFC.

If you stop and think about it, there are rules in EVERY sport. You're correct again, my friend. Pride, UFC, or any of the other ones do offer MUCH more.

Third: Have you ever trained with or fought someone who fights in Pride, the UFC, Shooto, King of the Cage, or any of the others? If not, then you don't know what you are talking about. All but the worst of these guys train full contact against boxers, kick boxers, wrestlers, Judokas, Jiu Jitsu fighters, and submission wrestlers. They learn to fight hard standing, clinching, and on the ground. You think these guys can't hit hard? Two words for you guys: Cro Cop! Two more words: Chuck Liddell. I train at a school run by a guy who is undefeated in EFC and Pride. There are other guys there who fight MMA. I have over 30 years of martial arts experience and I have never met better conditioned, more versatile, more deadly fighters in my life.

They probably have not trained with anyone who does these types of things.

Fourth: Who are these "real street fighters" and where are these "real underground matches" where Pride and UFC fighters would get whooped. Are these real street fighters better trained than professional MMA fighters? Do they have more endurance? Do they have a larger repertoire of techniques than the pros? Do they hit harder? No. They are not, do not, do not, and do not. The fact is they are the fighters who are not smart enough, disciplined enough, tough enough, or good enough to fight professionally.

These so called "real street fighters" are the fat slobs that you see on the bar stool, drinking a beer, and talking more sh** than you can ever imagine. The difference is that the "talkers" do just that---TALK. They dont walk the walk as well.

Fifth: Where do you think Pro MMA guys come from? Do you think none of them have ever been in a street fight? Do you think that just because they train for professional fights to take place in a ring or cage that they can't pick up a club or a bottle or a knife or a gun?

I'm sure that they can fight. Good example--Tank. Sure, hes lost more than hes won, but you know what....I dont think that hed think twice about throwing down on the street.

Now that I am done, you guys should just go back to your mats and practice yoiur deadly kata techniques in the air.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Mike

 

[Dan Anderson]

I think the NHB or MMA competitions did one very good thing for the martial arts - they showed the world that man does not survive only on two feet. For a great many karate, taekwondo and kung fu players, this was a much needed pitcher of ice water. Personally, I have since dried myself off and have warmed up.

Best,
Dan Anderson

 

[kenpo12]

I have to agree with OFK. Most of the comments seem to be very ignorant.
As far as my opinion on MMA, I think it's great. For one, it's a much more pure fighting sport due to less money and corruption. I think they have done a great service to those martial artists who want to see what can happen with limited rules. Granted it's not the same as a street fight but it does get a whole lot closer than point sparring or even kickboxing will.

 

[markulous]

Nice! :boing2:

 

[MJS]

I think the NHB or MMA competitions did one very good thing for the martial arts - they showed the world that man does not survive only on two feet. For a great many karate, taekwondo and kung fu players, this was a much needed pitcher of ice water. Personally, I have since dried myself off and have warmed up.

Best,
Dan Anderson

Right on Dan!! I agree 100% with that statement. I'll give this example to back up what you say. Look at UFC 1. Majority of fighters were stand up. Gracie and Shamrock were the only ones with any huge amount of grappling exp. And what happened?? EVERY stand up guy went to the ground. Now, look at the UFC, 11 yrs. later...what do you see? EVERY fighter today has an equal balance of stand up AND grappling!

Yeah, I'd DEFINATELY say that it was a wake up call!!!

Mike

 

[James Kovacich]

Right on Dan!! I agree 100% with that statement. I'll give this example to back up what you say. Look at UFC 1. Majority of fighters were stand up. Gracie and Shamrock were the only ones with any huge amount of grappling exp. And what happened?? EVERY stand up guy went to the ground. Now, look at the UFC, 11 yrs. later...what do you see? EVERY fighter today has an equal balance of stand up AND grappling!

Yeah, I'd DEFINATELY say that it was a wake up call!!!

Mike

And in the next 10 years theres going to be and even greater evolution of the arts, more complete martial artist evolving.

Just look inside the current issue of Grappling Magazine. The NAGA Championships have over 1200 no-gi competitors on Sat. and over 200 gi competitors on Sun. World record numbers (as stated by them).

Competetitors as young as 4 years old and as old as 59. We have a "new breed" coming up! Its going to be very interesting especially on the faces of those that said grappling was just another "phase." :asian:

 

[MJS]

And in the next 10 years theres going to be and even greater evolution of the arts, more complete martial artist evolving.

Just look inside the current issue of Grappling Magazine. The NAGA Championships have over 1200 no-gi competitors on Sat. and over 200 gi competitors on Sun. World record numbers (as stated by them).

Competetitors as young as 4 years old and as old as 59. We have a "new breed" coming up! Its going to be very interesting especially on the faces of those that said grappling was just another "phase." :asian:

Very well said! Again, I agree 100% with that! :asian:

Mike

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

And in the next 10 years theres going to be and even greater evolution of the arts, more complete martial artist evolving.

Just look inside the current issue of Grappling Magazine. The NAGA Championships have over 1200 no-gi competitors on Sat. and over 200 gi competitors on Sun. World record numbers (as stated by them).

Competetitors as young as 4 years old and as old as 59. We have a "new breed" coming up! Its going to be very interesting especially on the faces of those that said grappling was just another "phase." :asian:

Couple things here...

Grappling is very different from traditional martial arts training: A greater variety of techniques, more physically demanding training, a greater emphasis on competition, and training time focused more on sparring/fighting.

As the number of grapplers grows, the number of grapplers wanting to cross-train in striking arts will also grow. As grapplers tend to be more focused on results (and less focused on the "journey" or "way" or "do") they will eschew Traditional Martial Arts training and choose competition oriented arts such as boxing, kick boxing, Muay Thai, etc.

10 years from now, there will not only be more grapplers than there are today, there will also be more people doing ring-oriented standup arts. TKD, Kenpo, J/O Karate, and Kung Fu will still have their following among budophiles, but those who want to learn to fight will choose fighting arts.

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

OFK
First: I was commenting on the term No Holds Barred. I was saying that it was more like that in the begining and with the rules now it is less like that.
I also know the rules are there to protect the fighters too.

Second I never said that the fighters in Pride K-1 or anything else were any less great, that is something you came up with on your own. I have the highest respect for those fighters and dont put words in my mouth. I have never bad mouth them as fighters i was just questioning the term No Holds Barred and also saying that some of the fighters might like a bit more flexibility.
Also there are underground fights that do occur and the guys arent drunks but just hard core fighters who choose to fight in that arena.

I am happy you get to train with the pro's more power too you.

Dont put words in my mouth. I never once ever bad mouth any pro fighters.

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

Well, Jason and Chicago Green Dragon...

Those are some of the most ignorant posts I've ever read on an internet martial arts forum.

First: Now that there are rules to protect the fighters, it's not called "No Holds Barred". It's now called "Mixed Martial Arts" or "MMA" for short.

Second: Of course there are lots of rules. But, there is no one-on-one competition that allows a greater variety of techniques than Pride or UFC.

Third: Have you ever trained with or fought someone who fights in Pride, the UFC, Shooto, King of the Cage, or any of the others? If not, then you don't know what you are talking about. All but the worst of these guys train full contact against boxers, kick boxers, wrestlers, Judokas, Jiu Jitsu fighters, and submission wrestlers. They learn to fight hard standing, clinching, and on the ground. You think these guys can't hit hard? Two words for you guys: Cro Cop! Two more words: Chuck Liddell. I train at a school run by a guy who is undefeated in EFC and Pride. There are other guys there who fight MMA. I have over 30 years of martial arts experience and I have never met better conditioned, more versatile, more deadly fighters in my life.

Fourth: Who are these "real street fighters" and where are these "real underground matches" where Pride and UFC fighters would get whooped. Are these real street fighters better trained than professional MMA fighters? Do they have more endurance? Do they have a larger repertoire of techniques than the pros? Do they hit harder? No. They are not, do not, do not, and do not. The fact is they are the fighters who are not smart enough, disciplined enough, tough enough, or good enough to fight professionally.

Fifth: Where do you think Pro MMA guys come from? Do you think none of them have ever been in a street fight? Do you think that just because they train for professional fights to take place in a ring or cage that they can't pick up a club or a bottle or a knife or a gun?

Now that I am done, you guys should just go back to your mats and practice yoiur deadly kata techniques in the air.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Ok, I guess I misunderstood your comment:

I think if you asked some real street fighters who fight in real underground matches about this they would say bring these "no holds barred" fighting competition champions out for a real no holds fight.

I'd still like to hear about these real street fighters in real undergound matches who are better than the pros. I'd love to have a discussion about their secret underground street fighting techniques and training methods that would beat pro MMA fighters who train 5 or 6 days a week with other pro MMA fighters, boxers, wrestlers, etc. :idunno:

 

[Black Bear]

Well Gol-LEEE! Them ol' fat kenpoka just up and SED it!!!

Haw haw...

But it would have been even better with a BB-style disclaimer at the end, as in:

"Everything that you have just read is false. Nobody believes it, not even the person who wrote it. Even if it were true, it doesn't apply to you because ________________. So just ignore it and go on practicing your deadly kata techniques in the air."

That should become standard practice for... ... well, you guys know who you are.

 

[MJS]

OFK
Also there are underground fights that do occur and the guys arent drunks but just hard core fighters who choose to fight in that arena.

I believe that Jason mentioned something about brawlers in one of his posts. A few things to look at here. First, the UFC as well as the other MMA events out there are santioned events. Are you saying that the so called "underground" events are legal? I dont think so. If thats the case, then why are they "underground"? Seems to me that there must be something to hide. Second, if these guys had so much skill, then why not fight in the UFC or the other sanctioned events? You cant possibly tell me that the underground fights offer more money then the legit ones. Third, you need to know what you're doing when you judge and fight in these events. I give alot of credit to 'Big John' McCarthy for the excellent job that he does in the ring.

I'm puzzled by your statement. If someone had the chance to make it to pro basketball, pro football, baseball or any other sport, then why not go for it? Thats like saying that Shaq should just play for fun in his backyard, even though he has the skill to play pro!

Mike

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

ok no prablamo

I have had some of my friends who were able to get into some of these matches where people paid large purses for anything goes fighting. One in particular that comes to mind happend in new york a while ago. It was held in a manhatten building and opened to a select group.
Two men came out to fight, 10 seconds later one guy hit the other guy in the throat killing him and the fight was over. The guy that won was someone who trained 7 days a week from what i heard.
My buddy watched this guy during this fight and couldnt believe what happend but this was how many of those fights he had the chance to go to ended up.

All I am saying is there are also underground matches.

I have the highest respect for the pro fighters in their circuits and i also respect the dedication they put into their art or craft.

I do not advocate or like the underground matches because i think that kind of fighting is insane in my opinion but it does happen.

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

Ok, I guess I misunderstood your comment:


I'd still like to hear about these real street fighters in real undergound matches who are better than the pros. I'd love to have a discussion about their secret underground street fighting techniques and training methods that would beat pro MMA fighters who train 5 or 6 days a week with other pro MMA fighters, boxers, wrestlers, etc.