Uechi-Ryu Circle Block

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Drobison491, Aug 31, 2020.

  1. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Senior Master

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    Want to hear more about some training camps people have had... thread emerging now!
     
  2. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    Lol, yeah.

    Last time I saw him was at a banquet for some Uechi guys who were being promoted to seventh and eighth Dans. I was there because I had been invited. I got bushwhacked. Got called up to the podium and was given a Life Time Achievement award in Okinawan Arts....even though I don't actually train in Okinawan Arts.(long story)

    Stopping by his table at the end of the night he was telling jokes in Chinese to a group of people. And, man, they were laughing their butts off. It was a great night, but kind of surreal.
     
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  3. Drobison491

    Drobison491 Yellow Belt

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    so this thread has been silent for a few months, but I figured I'd give an update. I've now been training for 4 months and I'm finally beginning to feel more comfortable in the stances and with the circle block (main reason for the start of this thread). My instructor recently promoted me, still a white belt but now i have a shiny green bar at the ends of it. I know some Uechi Ryu schools use the full gambit of color belts, but we only use white, green, and brown. Also one other white belt has now joined our small school (7 people, included the instructor), which is kind of cool the other students have been training with my instructor for 10 years or more so not being the only beginner has been good.

    Long winded way of saying that after a few months the circle block is becoming more natural, guess i was a little impatient at the beginning, thinking it should have come instantly.
     
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  4. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Four months is nothing. Keep at it . :)

    Glad to hear you are making process.
     
  5. Drobison491

    Drobison491 Yellow Belt

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    oh I still feel very new, but not as lost as month 1
     
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  6. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Sr. Grandmaster

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    When you train circle block, do you

    1. freeze your body and just move your arm? or
    2. freeze your arm and just move your body?
     
  7. Drobison491

    Drobison491 Yellow Belt

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    its primarily an arm movement, being a beginner (during Kata/Bunkai is slightly more fluid for the beginner) I was taught to complete the step, execute the block then complete the next technique so between those two we would freeze the body and move the arm. The advanced students typically execute the block during while executing the step.

    Is that what you're getting at?
     
  8. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Sr. Grandmaster

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    1. Beginner level training - freeze the body and move the arm.
    2. Advance level training - freeze the arm and move the body.

    Do you have to start from 1 and get into 2? I don't think it's necessary. When you move both arms at the same time, it's hard to notice you body movement. But if you just move 1 arm, your body can pull/push your arm when you freeze your arm at your shoulder joint.

    In the following clip, you can see his body movement.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  9. Drobison491

    Drobison491 Yellow Belt

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    excuse my ignorance only 4 months into this. I'm being taught to stay pretty ridged in the upper body, so when I execute a circle block its solely an arm movement, the elbow stays close in but moves in a small circle in conjunction with the fore arm. the for arm reaches out to meet the attack as soon as possible and the fingers are usually directed at the eyes of the attacker (blocks are to be used as strikes when possible).

    to your first point, the completion of the the step then execution of a block is just a training device to make sure our technique becomes sound, once it is then the execution of the block while stepping or turning becomes more fluid.
     
  10. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    This may be the easiest way to learn the technique.

    I train in Kung Fu and I have often heard Sifu's say that they didn't add the body movement because it's easier for most people to learn the technique and then later learn how to drive power to the technique.. When I teach Kung Fu, I tend to do the same thing for some of the techniques. I tried the other way before and sometimes people get frustrated with trying to connect body motion with the technique. If you want to have a lot of students who will keep paying then you do what you can not to make too many frustrating experiences. If you spent 4 months training at your school and all you feel is frustration, then you may not return for the 5th month.
     
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  11. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Senior Master

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    Awesome to hear, yeah often it just takes time and feeling your way into the movement.

    And congratulations on the promotion! Well done :)
     
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  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Sr. Grandmaster

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    What we are talking about on this has nothing to do with any particular MA style. We are only talking about common sense and logic.

    If you freeze your shoulder joint, by just rotating your waist and hip left and right, or in circle, your body will pull your arms. Why do you want to train this way? When a punch comes toward you, first your move your body to be outside of the attacking path. Whether your arm can block that punch or not is no longer important.

    This is called "body method" in MA training. Boxers are good in using this principle to dodge punches.

    Not saying your current training is wrong. But your goal should be "only see the body movement and don't see the arm movement".

    In this clip, he lets his body forward bending to pull down his hammer fist (body pull arm). It's different from to freeze the body and only punch the arm.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
  13. wab25

    wab25 2nd Black Belt

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    First off, keep doing it as your instructor wants you to do it. (sounds like you are already)...

    When I learn new moves or patterns... I find it very complicated to try to get the body going, with the footwork and the hand work from the start. I get easily confused. What I have found that works for me, is to just do the hands. Learn the path where the hands need to go. As you get comfortable with moving the hands, you can start to put more speed and more power into doing it. Whats interesting is that as you move your hands faster, they will start to move your body. If you practice, with your body as still as you can be, and do the hands, the hands will start to pull your body slightly. Now, you focus on what your body is doing in response to your hand movement. You can then "reverse" it by having those body movements initiate the hand movements. You can't see the difference but you can feel it. Once you get a little body into it, the hands should be moving with more power, pulling on more parts of your body. Soon, you can get to what KFW is talking about, where they are body movements. For me, I have to start with the hands and work backwards to the body.

    When they want me to keep my upper body rigid... to me that says 'its important to connect the hand motion to the hip motion, not to the shoulder motion." In this case, as you increase power in the hands, ignore the body motions, but focus on the hip motions. How is this hand motion pulling on my hip? How do I initiate that hand motion from my hip?

    Keep up with the training.
     
  14. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    My opinion is that the OP ought to follow what his sensei is telling him, as I need to take on faith that there is an appropriate sequence in developing the skill. As he is very much in the beginning stages of his training, it is not helpful for people to jump in and suggest he try doing things that, while they may be part of the progression, he is simply not yet ready for it. His sensei is in a position to decide when the time is right. Otherwise, well-intentioned advice can just add confusion.
     
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  15. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I know some advance Jow Ga practitioners who recently had training over the summer. They got a big surprise when their Sifu said the following " Try to move move your body and punch together. I only taught you to do it like that because it was easier for you to learn like that. Moving the body with the punch is advance." (paraphrasing).

    I was shocked because I've been moving my body with my punch for a very long time. I assumed these students knew it because they know more Jow Ga than I know. What wasn't surprising was the statement "it's an advance skill set."

    I personally don't know if it was an advanced skill set for me or if it was just something I naturally fell into. I don't remember how or when I learned to move my body with my punch. The one thing I did learn is that it can be very frustrating to teach people how to do this. Either I was just not communicating it correctly or the students just flat out didn't understand it. Maybe it's one of those things you have to feel in order to understand. Whatever the reason, it's very difficult for a lot of people to tie in their body to the punch.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there are some MMA fighters who couldn't do it. You'll hear a lot about using the hips, but that's not the same thing as using the body to power the techniques.
     
  16. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Sr. Grandmaster

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    It's easy to see that there is a big difference there.

    Punch without moving the body.

    [​IMG]

    Punch with moving the body - look at his waist/hip.

    [​IMG]
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
  17. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    That was worth it just for the sound track.
     
  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Are you trying to control your hands? or trying to control your elbows? Generally with any of that sort of fighting movement if you make sure your elbows are in the right place your hands look after themselves.
     
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  19. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Sr. Grandmaster

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    Let's take beginner level training aside, am I the only person who thinks the following clip training is better?

    [​IMG]
     
  20. wab25

    wab25 2nd Black Belt

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    Better for who?

    Beginners need to start with something much simpler and move on to a more complete version. As Flying Crane pointed out, its a progression and if you throw too much, too soon at someone they can't take it in. For a person just starting out, that clip training is not better, its much harder. I personally would need to start, most likely with the hands first. Then the feet. Then both together. Then integrating the body. Maybe its just me and I am slow... but if you expect me to go from no experience in that art to what that clip shows, it isn't going to happen. I will probably do more things wrong than right.

    The best training, is the training that is at or slightly above where the student is at.123
     
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