Toyota halts US sales of 8 recalled models

[Rich Parsons]

Toyota halts US sales of 8 recalled models

...

The Japanese automaker said the sales suspension includes the 2009-2010 RAV4, the 2009-2010 Corolla, the 2007-2010 Camry, the 2009-2010 Matrix, the 2005-2010 Avalon, the 2010 Highlander, the 2007-2010 Tundra and the 2008-2010 Sequoia.

Note: Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe are the same vehicle built from the NUMMI plant in California. I thought all production of Pontiac Vibes were cancelled early on, but if someone owns one please be aware.

WASHINGTON – Toyota Motor Co. said Tuesday it was suspending U.S. sales of eight recalled models to fix accelerator pedals that stick, the latest quality problem to confront the world's No. 1 automaker.

The "stop sale" involves a significant portion of Toyota's fleet and some of its most popular vehicles, including the Camry and Corolla. As part of the plan, Toyota is halting production at five manufacturing facilities for the week of Feb. 1 "to assess and coordinate activities." There are 2.3 million vehicles involved in the recall, which was announced last week.

"This action is necessary until a remedy is finalized," said Bob Carter, Toyota's group vice president and general manager.

The Japanese automaker said the sales suspension includes the 2009-2010 RAV4, the 2009-2010 Corolla, the 2007-2010 Camry, the 2009-2010 Matrix, the 2005-2010 Avalon, the 2010 Highlander, the 2007-2010 Tundra and the 2008-2010 Sequoia.

...

From: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100127/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_recall

 

[Carol]

Don't ask me why stuff like this sticks in my head, but I seem to recall Flying Crane mentioning that he bought a Vibe a few years back. I'll PM him to make sure he sees this thread.

 

[blindsage]

Yeah, they were originally saying there was no problem, then they said it was very limited, now it's HUGE! Crap, I bought an '09 Corolla.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Recall doesn't effect Scion or Lexus brands.

 

[Rich Parsons]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Toyota-US-sales-halt-deals-apf-3442272931.html?x=0

Another Article that talks about stop sale and stop build of the vehicles in question.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Recall doesn't effect Scion or Lexus brands.

As seen in this other post: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1262346#post1262346

The Lexus brand has complaints against it so there may be some additional future fall out as well.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Damn American made junk. Who was on a smoke break when that part went through the plant?

 

[Rich Parsons]

Damn American made junk. Who was on a smoke break when that part went through the plant?

Here is the question we are asking within our business:

Toyota uses part and has problems.

Other companies use part and do not have problems.

What is different?

I will tell you the software controls strategy and how it is implemented is the first difference I can think of.


Plus using the same part does not really mean the same part. I had a Japanese supplier that was majority owned by Toyota, and they stated that it was the same part that was used by Toyota. In reality the base transmisison was the same, but the electrical solenoids and pressure manifold was modified drastically and they wrote their own software.

 

[Rich Parsons]

An Update: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100129/ap_on_bi_ge/toyota_recall

Toyota finds fix for gas pedals; update due Friday

By TOM KRISHER and KEN THOMAS, AP Auto Writers Tom Krisher And Ken Thomas, Ap Auto Writers – 51 mins ago
DETROIT – Toyota Motor Corp. has told employees that it has figured out how to fix a problem with sticking accelerator pedals and will brief them on the details on Friday.

The company said in an e-mail to employees obtained by The Associated Press that it presented the remedy to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. The memo did not say when the repairs would make their way to customers.

"Plans are being developed on a variety of fronts. Tomorrow, we will update you with further details," Toyota said in the e-mail, sent Thursday night.

I have not found any referrence to their proposed fix being made public or timing.



Although it looks like the trouble is not over yet:

A second House committee, meanwhile, is launching an investigation into the problems with Toyota's accelerator pedal systems. The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee has scheduled a Feb. 4 hearing entitled, "Toyota Gas Pedals: Is the Public at Risk?"

 

[Xue Sheng]

On a positive note at least now I am happy my wife and I didn’t buy the Camry last summer

It could have been worse, at least they admitted there was a problem eventually. Back when Chrysler bought jeep I was a mechanic for a dealership that sold Jeep and Chrysler was big on silent recalls. They would not tell the customer there was a problem they would just fix it when the customer dropped it off for routine maintenance. And one of those problems was an issue where the Jeep Cherokee would shut off while making a right turn... and you could not restart it.

 

[Carol]

So far this year I've rented a Chevy Malibu and a Ford Focus, and both have impressed the heck out of me. They handled well, ran well, and managed rough weather well.

 

[Ken Morgan]

The Toyota plant where they make Corollas is 10 minutes away from where I live, I bought one of them a few years back. OK car, though I’ve had to replace a bloody computer module about 4 times so far…..Honestly I don’t see it as any better or worse then the VW’s, GM’s, or the Chryslers I’ve owned. I find I have the best luck with Fords.

I will give Toyota credit, when was the last time you seen such a huge company bend over backwards, stop selling a product and do everything it can to fix a problem? Mircosoft never does it, neither did Chrysler, or a dozen other companies anyone can name.

Finally a company that acts like an adult.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

My family were die-hard Ford people.
2 of 3 dealerships that screwed me were Ford dealerships (both now long gone).
3rd was an indy.
Worst car I ever owned? Ford Taurus and a Mercury Sable.
Best Car I ever owned? Ford Tempo and a Mercury Topaz.
Most durable car? Chevy Cavalier.

We buy exclusively Toyota now though, because the fuel efficiency has shown to be better than US cars we've looked at. Because the dealership we go to has gone above and beyond to earn our loyalty. Because so far, we've had less headaches with the Toyotas than any US made car.

Your mileage will vary of course.

 

[Ken Morgan]

My family were die-hard Ford people.
2 of 3 dealerships that screwed me were Ford dealerships (both now long gone).
3rd was an indy.
Worst car I ever owned? Ford Taurus and a Mercury Sable.
Best Car I ever owned? Ford Tempo and a Mercury Topaz.
Most durable car? Chevy Cavalier.

We buy exclusively Toyota now though, because the fuel efficiency has shown to be better than US cars we've looked at. Because the dealership we go to has gone above and beyond to earn our loyalty. Because so far, we've had less headaches with the Toyotas than any US made car.

Your mileage will vary of course.

The best cars have ever owned have been a Ford Mustang and a Ford Areostar.
Worse, a VW Jetta. (Though I did love my GTI).

Many of the Toyota cars are made in North America, so while the company owners are Japanese the cars are made in Canada and the USA. With a huge number of parts made by local suppliers. I've got many friends who work at the Toyota plant, years ago they were all treated very, very well, these days with all the cut backs, not so well.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Toyota president 'sorry to have made customers uneasy'


STORY HIGHLIGHTS

• Toyota's president apologized Friday for the recall of millions of vehicles
• It was Akio Toyoda's first remarks since the latest round of recalls began last week
• Eight models of cars have been recalled in the U.S., Europe and China

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/01/29/japan.toyota.apology/index.html?hpt=T2

 

[Rich Parsons]

On a positive note at least now I am happy my wife and I didn’t buy the Camry last summer

It could have been worse, at least they admitted there was a problem eventually. Back when Chrysler bought jeep I was a mechanic for a dealership that sold Jeep and Chrysler was big on silent recalls. They would not tell the customer there was a problem they would just fix it when the customer dropped it off for routine maintenance. And one of those problems was an issue where the Jeep Cherokee would shut off while making a right turn... and you could not restart it.

Toyota is known for this in the industry today. They send out a coupon for a low priced oil change. The customers come in, and the Service writter tells the customer there are a couple of bulletins out for there vehicle and they just happen to have the parts in stock and could fix it for them today. Of course the fix is free. (* This is a real big clue that you are getting recall work done *)

 

[Rich Parsons]

My family were die-hard Ford people.
2 of 3 dealerships that screwed me were Ford dealerships (both now long gone).
3rd was an indy.
Worst car I ever owned? Ford Taurus and a Mercury Sable.
Best Car I ever owned? Ford Tempo and a Mercury Topaz.
Most durable car? Chevy Cavalier.

We buy exclusively Toyota now though, because the fuel efficiency has shown to be better than US cars we've looked at. Because the dealership we go to has gone above and beyond to earn our loyalty. Because so far, we've had less headaches with the Toyotas than any US made car.

Your mileage will vary of course.

Bob, have you looked recently in the last couple of years. GM, Ford and Hyundai all have comparable vehicles that get as good or better fuel economy. Also check Consumers reports form last year on articles for fuel economy. They had a couple of articles, one stated one should use the sticker fuel economy to buy a car. The other one stated that GM then Ford was the closest to real world fuel economy to what was reported on the sticker. (* in essence they did not have a vehicle that ran great only on the federal test procedures for fuel economy *). Toyota and Honda were actually some of the biggest differences from real world to reported sticker fuel economy.

Also in Model Years 2009, there were fuel economy changes that GM lobbied for that used more tests that when weighted and averaged gave the sticker number that represented as close to possible as the real world. GM and Ford once again had the least amount of effect or changes in their product.

Note: As I tell people, if you have a great local service center or people that take care of you this is great and it makes sense to buy a vehicle from them. If you sit in a vehcile and it just fits perfectly to your body, then this is another reason to buy the vehicle. If it just looks ro comes in a color that is unique to a manufacturer then that is also a valid selection criteria. But if you start to quantify your purchasing decision with objective data and subjective data as I mentioned above, then doing some research and getting educated is a good thing.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The dealership we buy from also has Ford, GM, etc branches, all highly rated for service and not selling you stuff you don't need. The Toyota one actually told my grandfather he didn't need an expensive repair he thought he did, and has done several little things when asked at no charge. I almost bought a Saturn 2 yrs ago. Liked the car, but didn't have like it was the last year for the model.

My basis is, reliability, fuel efficiency and comfort, as well as cost. Usually look in CR for info on them as well as check the car forums for comments. Then I quiz my uncle who works for Audi.

 

[Rich Parsons]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Toyota-Shows-How-Giants-usnews-3989832353.html?x=0&.v=1

Toyota Shows How Giants Stumble

Rick Newman, On Friday January 29, 2010, 2:18 pm EST
At General Motors, they used to call their surging competitor "Mr. T," as if intimidated by a muscular rival who seemed able to seize market share at will. But Toyota suddenly looks pretty meek, thanks to a mystifying safety problem that has led to a huge recall, an unprecedented production shutdown, and an ugly dent in a once sterling reputation.

This is news to me. While I do not travel in the circles of the board of directors, none of the Executive Directors I know or talk to or Global Chief's or the couple of VP's I have had contact with, have called Toyota Mr T. I wonder where their source got this info?

Recalls aren't unusual. Here's what normally happens: The owner gets notified of the recall and brings the car to a dealer, where the problem is fixed in a day or two with no charge to the customer. But this recall is more confusing and far more draconian than usual.

I have not been able to find the data, but as I stated before the only real reasons to issue a recall before a solution are known are for safety of the owners, which Toyota has claimed is not the issue and the rate of complaints is rising to 4% of the volume sold. So the company issues the recall before the NHTSA issues the recall for you with them directing how it is executed.

For one thing, Toyota announced the recall before there was a fix in place, so dealers didn't even know what to do if you brought them the car. Toyota implies that most of the recalled vehicles can still be driven safely,

See above for reference

but it also offers these instructions for people who feel their car might have a sticky gas pedal: "The vehicle should be driven to the nearest safe location, the engine shut off, and a Toyota dealer contacted for assistance." Beyond that, Toyota has also issued some Dukes of Hazzard style maneuvers drivers should use if they're cruising along and the pedal does, in fact, stick, such as shifting into neutral or turning off the ignition (but don't take the key out!). Do they teach that in driver's ed?

Most auto engineers know the above instructions. Put the vehicle into neutral and turn the engine off. Many of the general population that deals with cars knows this. But understress, thinking about this when one has not thought about it before can be difficult as evidence o the 911 call of one of the Toyota acceleration crashes. (* See http://consumerist.com/2009/10/toyo...rash-due-to-gas-pedal-stuck-on-floormats.html and for audio http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=7017760 *) The statement about not taking the key out is so you do not remove the key and turn it all the way back and thereby locking the sterring column in position currently is. Even when it is turned off you may have a Manual feel on the steering but it is critical to keep the steering capable for the vehicle to get it off the road safely.

...
The sales and production stoppage suggests an even bigger problem, with lots of legal liability. Toyota has stopped selling or building eight models, including the Camry, Corolla, and RAV 4, which represent more than 50 percent of its sales. That will cost Toyota millions, maybe billions, of dollars. It already ranks near the top in the annals of corporate meltdowns, and it's not necessarily over.

This is something I have been thinking about myself. If the above says it is worn and used pedals, then why is it a problem for new vehicles unless there is something else or bigger that could be a problem.

I know EPA can fine a manufacturer for building a vehicel with a known issues of significant failure or problem or not meeting requirements. I do not know if NHTSA can fine them for vehicles built or sold with such a known problem or not.

GM, meanwhile, is poaching Toyota customers with special financing and other incentives, along with cars that go the speed you want them to.

The Dealers (* Independantly owned by law *) approached GM and asked for incentives as they had customers with Toyota products that wanted out of their current choice.

Ford also is offereing incentive to Toyota owners as well.


The thought is that the delers would take posession of the vehicles and hold onto them until Toyota offered a fix, and then they would have them fixed at Toyota's cost and resold to the public.

I have no idea what the resale or trade in on these vehicles currently are.

How did this happen? Toyota itself may not even know yet, and it could take months or years for the full story to develop. But Toyota's dramatic comedown isn't as sudden as it might seem. Some industry-watchers feel the saga has been building for years and may even have been inevitable.

It could take a long time to get the absolute fix or known causes. There might be a serious of "fixes" as they research and find things they can fix. This would be more costly to roll out in more than one version, but it reduces risk with each fix implemented.

Also the melt down on this case can be tracked back with online articles for LATimes and other news reporting sources for almost 10 years. But I think the author is referring to a more general meltdown, and one can see it as the number of vehicle configurations increased and their total volume increased. It is not as easy as GM and Ford have made it look for years.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Toyota halts US sales of 8 recalled models

...

The Japanese automaker said the sales suspension includes the 2009-2010 RAV4, the 2009-2010 Corolla, the 2007-2010 Camry, the 2009-2010 Matrix, the 2005-2010 Avalon, the 2010 Highlander, the 2007-2010 Tundra and the 2008-2010 Sequoia.

Note: Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe are the same vehicle built from the NUMMI plant in California. I thought all production of Pontiac Vibes were cancelled early on, but if someone owns one please be aware.



From: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100127/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_recall

Per: http://media.gm.com/content/media/u...l/content/Pages/news/us/en/2010/Jan/0129_vibe

Amid the media attention over the Toyota recalls for possible unintended acceleration that include the Pontiac Vibe, many customers are wondering whether it is safe to drive their 2009 and 2010 models of the Vibe.


Based on GM’s experience, the Vibe is safe to drive.


Prior to the Toyota accelerator pedal recall of Jan. 21 and the inclusion of the Vibe in the October 2009 recall for floor mat entrapment, GM had not received any relevant customer complaints in the 2009-2010 Pontiac Vibe. Nor were there any complaints found in a search of U.S. and Canadian databases.


However, since it was announced that the Vibe was included in the two Toyota recalls, we have received several complaints of alleged sticking accelerator pedals. To the best of our knowledge, the Vibe vehicles were safely brought to a stop. We are investigating each of the claims.


GM will communicate with the approximately 99,000 Vibe owners in the United States and Canada as soon as we receive additional information to share about the recall from Toyota.


Any customer who experiences any accelerator pedal issue should immediately park the vehicle, and have it towed to their GM dealer for an inspection.


The Vibe was built through August 2009 at the New United Motor Manufacturing (NUMMI) plant in Fremont, Calif., which was a joint venture of GM and Toyota.

At this time there are no reports of Pontiac Vibe with such a condition as an unintended acceleration for MY 09 & 10.

I would believe that the Toyota Matrix (* Built at the same plant as previously mentioned *) is on the list for having the same part for the pedal assembly. But as I do not ahve any data about the Matrix, I cannot speak to that.