Took a concealed carry class yesterday...

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Balrog, Apr 23, 2017.

  1. Balrog

    Balrog Master of Arts

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    ...and was amused at how much it sounded like my self-defense classes. A lot of detail work on Texas law pertaining to firearms, but the rest of it was about conflict resolution, what to do after the use of force, etc.

    I really enjoyed hearing the things I teach being taught from a different perspective.
     
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  2. Saheim

    Saheim Green Belt

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    Good for you! Congratz on taking the course. Have a carry piece in mind, yet?

    And yea, when I sat in on my (at the time) wife's class (I was never required to take it) they drove the point home that it was NOT a "marksmanship" class because you are most likely going to be shooting one to two shots at a threat about 10 feet away. They made it clear it was a class on when it is/is not legal to use deadly force. It was a good class and it sounds like yours was too!
     
  3. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    Whilst I am glad that there are legally-armed citizens about, and I certainly have no problems with guns, let me just say this about that.

    When you obtain a concealed permit, your name goes on a government list. And depending on state, so does the serial number of your selected carry weapon.

    Sounds a lot like gun registration to me.

    No, thanks.
     
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  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    All true. I worry about it less than maybe I should. I've just never been terribly concerned about the government knowing I have a gun.
     
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  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    The first CCW class I took (South Carolina at the time), we had to qualify with the caliber we would carry. So I borrowed my dad's gun and my girlfriend's gun (both in the class with me), to qualify with three calibers. I'm no marksman, but managed to qualify within 2 points of the highest score on all three guns. To me, that was a good measure of the required qualification. I'm a pretty good shooter, so should be able to pretty much ace a qualification for that kind of thing. If they required more than that, it would have been an improper focus, IMO. The class properly focused on the legalities, threat avoidance, and basic safety, far more than the actual shooting qualification.
     
  6. Saheim

    Saheim Green Belt

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    Well lucky for me, I live in a state that actually has a law AGAINST registering guns (other than class 3). Also our permit is not gun (or even weapon) specific and there is no law against private transactions in which no records are kept (I like "bill of sale"s tho).

    So you could buy a gun for cash, off a friend, carry it, decide you hate it, sell, and buy a different gun and carry it instead.

    None of it really matters to me, though, I'm not worried about the gvt knowing I have stuff. My class 3 stuff had to be registered, federally, doesn't bother me.
     
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  7. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Glad to hear you have joined the ranks of us CC people.

    Have you decided how you will actually carry?

    Also just curious, what was your instructors qualifications to teach use of force, conflict resolution, and what to do after using force?
     
  8. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    And now your post about government lists just got flagged by the NSA. You're screwed!

    But no worries, I think they'll like you.
     
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  9. Balrog

    Balrog Master of Arts

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    Ours started out with a 50 round range qualification. I shot the highest score in the class according to the scoring guidelines, but I was very unhappy with my shooting. I haven't spent too much time on the range lately, but back in the day when I was popping over a thousand rounds a month, my shooting group used to count only two scores: 10 or zero. If you didn't put it in the 10 ring, we considered it a miss. It was not uncommon for us to have a silhouette target at the end of the day with a great big hole in the middle.

    The scoring guidelines for qualification were anything 8/9/10/X on a B27 target counted 5 points. 7 area counted 4. Hitting outside 7 counted 3. Hitting off target was zero. No head shots, center mass only. I was predominately in the 10/X area, but some scatter out into 9 and 8.. Four shots across the upper body in the 7 area, which cost me a perfect score, and I'm quite sure those were at the 15 yard distance. I gotta get back on the range.

    I shot my qualification with my old standby, my S&W model 15, that I used to carry when I was a deputy sheriff back in the 70s. It's not exactly concealable :) , so my CC weapon will be a Ruger LCP2. It was down to the wire between the S&W Bodyguard, the Glock 42 and the Ruger, but when I went to the firing line with them, the Ruger won out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
  10. Balrog

    Balrog Master of Arts

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    I've got a driver's license. I have a voter registration card. I've a secret clearance with the Department of Homeland Security. It's just another list.

    And Texas does not ask for serial numbers, nor am I limited in how many weapons I can carry at any given time.
     
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  11. Balrog

    Balrog Master of Arts

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  12. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Louisiana only requires you to put all the rounds on paper.....not in the silhouette....just hit paper. Lol.
     
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  13. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    I'm actually not a big fan of a lot of these courses.

    In my opinion, these courses shouldn't be required.
     
  14. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    I wish it was possible to transfer common sense. Here in Michigan, just a few miles from my house, a woman who had completed the required training and had a valid CPL, decided to shoot at a couple fleeing shoplifters at a Home Depot.

    Woman Who Shot at Home Depot Shoplifters Sentenced to 18 mos

    Even after she got a suspended sentence for her obvious (my opinion) criminal act, she felt she had done no wrong, and stated she would "never help anyone again." Yeah.
     
  15. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    I note this in the ironic sense that many are against mandatory gun registration, but will happily self-register to obtain a concealed carry permit. Never quite understood that part.
     
  16. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Hmmmmm......I don't see a problem with it. ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  17. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    I realize you're jesting, but sadly, many do not have a problem with her actions either. I have had some interesting discussions with some of them. Asked them how they'd feel if her wild shots would have hit some innocent person, or a person they knew or a loved one, etc. They just shrug it off and say she should have been a better shot. The number of people who seem to think a CPL is a deputy ranger position and that lawbreakers should be shot on sight both frightens and confounds me. And I'm a pro-gun guy.
     
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  18. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    2 things that I don't like about these classes:

    1) For me to carry openly....I am not required to do anything, but for me to cover the gun with my shirt....I now have to go to a course and show that I can safely handle the same weapon I've been carrying openly?

    2) instructors what they are not qualified to teach. Legal issues, what to expect emotionally after a lethal force encounter, what to do and provide in regards to police investigating your lethal force encounter, etc...
     
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  19. BujinBos

    BujinBos Yellow Belt

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    It is interesting just how varied the laws are state to state. Here in Mass there are several groups to help you navigate and understand the laws, which is good.

    As to the woman in the Home Depot case, who did she think she was helping? Home Depot's loss prevention? If the criminals were threatening other shoppers lives, then I could see stepping up to help prevent loss of life. Did these guys have guns? The article was a bit short on the details.
     
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  20. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    They were running out of the building. They were not armed, they were simple shoplifters. She said at the time that she thought she was helping the store security as well as police by aiming for their tires; she was trying to shoot them out.

    She did in fact hit one of the tires with a ricochet as I recall. The truck was abandoned a few miles away. The shoplifters were caught. None of which was worth endangering the lives of all the bystanders when she decided to open fire in the parking lot.

    As I said, I live a few miles from the Home Depot in question. It's never empty, always busy. The parking lot is generally pretty full. What she did was very dangerous and served no purpose.123
     
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