Togakure

[Cryozombie]

This was posted about Bussey in the Modern section... I didn't/dont want to start any fights there (or here) but I dont know much about Bussey... maybe someone here could clear up a few questions this raised for me...

he pioneered Togakure Ryu in 1979...he recieved his teaching licence from Soke Masaaki Hatsumi and is the 34th successor of the Togakure Ryu Ninjustu tradition

It was my understanding that Bussey was only a 1st or second dan, in the 'Kan when he combined the training with his Hapkido training and formed "Warrior International"... Does he in fact (or did he) have a Shidoshi licence from the Bujinkan?

 

[DavidCC]

I have a clsoe friend who trained with Bussey in the early 80s and according to him, it was mostly TKD they were learning, with a lot of "reality exercises". he also says, things got really wierd after Mr. B came back form Japan. But that was later...

 

[unterlich]

whaaaaaaaattttttttttttttttt
training in 79 ?????????????????????

yeah right, and I'm the teacher of Shoto Tanemura, SKH, Van Donk, Manaka, bla bla bla

join my trainning here and I'll teach u like Takamatsu Sensei teach me

(.........joke..... )

 

[Enson]

well i'm not familiar with too much of bussey but i think he was a lot higher than a 1rst or 2nd dan. i think he got to his 5th and then chose to leave.(from what i've heard/read/i don't remember)

peace

 

[Kreth]

i think he got to his 5th and then chose to leave.

He was never a godan... he was a yondan (4th degree).

Jeff

 

[unterlich]

anybody know where can i find info bout this bussey

 

[Enson]

anybody know where can i find info bout this bussey

www.robertbussey.com

and i guess he was a yondan. okay!

 

[Don Roley]

You might want to run down Scott Reisinger and ask him to elborate what he meant in this post about the story behind Bussey getting his forth dan. If it is anything like what I heard, it should be interesting.

The important thing for us in this forum is that what he changed his art into had almost nothing to do with what was taught in Japan. I have a friend that started out in one of his schools and abandoned it to join the Bujinkan. Judge him by his own merits, but do not say that what he does is ninjutsu as it is practiced in Japan.

 

[Enson]

Judge him by his own merits, but do not say that what he does is ninjutsu as it is practiced in Japan.

i don't think anyone has said that, just you. i could be wrong though. here is what bussey's site said:

Bussey was offered and politely turned down master level certification in Ninjutsu on four occasions, which would have ranked him higher than any non-Japanese master in the thousand year history of the art. In Bussey's words, "I felt it would have been unfair to both parties to accept such a position. I have absolutely no regret, because I would simply have helped spread an ancient art filled with illusions, sterile philosophies, and limitations".

it is obvious why he changed what he learned to a modern art/style of ninjutsu.
peace

 

[heretic888]

it is obvious why he changed what he learned to a modern art/style of ninjutsu.

Indeed. Gross public lies often help to reveal thinly-disguised motivations.

But, to go over it again:

1) Bussey, to my knowledge, has not called what he does "ninjutsu" in quite some time; and, unless he had had extensive training in Togakure ryu per se, then it would be disingenuous to call it "ninjutsu" in the first place.

2) Even assuming he was offered the rank in the first place... the claim that Bussey would have been the first non-Japanese to have a shidoshi's license is, quite frankly, a lie.

3) You should know that what Bussey actually means by "illusions" and "sterile philosophies" is "not Christianity" (or his interpretation of "Christianity" anyway). Which is really what it all boils down to.

4) Bussey criticized Hatsumi-soke and his methods even when he was in the Bujinkan. And, a big part of it, again, had to do with "philosophy".

5) Bussey was blatantly self-promoting even when he was in the Bujinkan. Most of his Black Belt articles had to do with exhorting others in the Bujinkan for being "impractical", and putting himself up on a pedestal because he taught "real men" (military and police guys).

Now, I realize I'm not the most knowledgeable person on the subject, but even from his articles, interviews, and public pronouncements, you get the distinct impression that Bussey is one of these extremely arrogant, xenophobic, mucho-macho, self-promoting "Christian" martial artists that has a problem with a koryu having Buddhist influences.

But, hey, if that's your cup of tea....

 

[Enson]

1) Bussey, to my knowledge, has not called what he does "ninjutsu" in quite some time; and, unless he had had extensive training in Togakure ryu per se, then it would be disingenuous to call it "ninjutsu" in the first place.But, hey, if that's your cup of tea....

panther still sells his ninjutsu videos. i don't know when those were made and frankley unless it will make the price of gas go from $2.11 to .99 cents... than i probably won't look into it further. i was just quoting bussey's site. i believe what he does now is still his modern version of ninjutsu, and is alright by me. so i guess, even though i don't really drink much tea... i'll have a glass! :ultracool
peace

 

[heretic888]

Actually, to my knowledge, Bussey no longer identifies himself with "ninjutsu" at all. He changed the name of his organization quite some time ago.

Also, as before, unless most of what is being done is from Togakure ryu, then it ain't "ninjutsu".

 

[Cryozombie]

Guys... lets not turn this into a fight about Bussey's motovations...

I was just wondering if he actually HAD a teaching licence in the Bujinkan as Animedge's post suggested. The question has been answered to my satisfaction, thank you everyone.

 

[ninhito]

hey how much sparring, i mean full contact, do you guys do.

 

[Enson]

hey how much sparring, i mean full contact, do you guys do.

welcome aboard ninhito! :ultracool
you can refer to this thread for more info!
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17361&highlight=sparring
happy posting!
peace

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

As far as I know, Bussey trained mainly with Nagato sensei long enough to achieve a grade of fourth dan, and then went on to do his own thing.