Juko-Kai Ninjutsu?

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Cryozombie, Feb 15, 2003.

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  1. r.severe

    r.severe Blue Belt

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    Jeff states, "Heck, maybe even Hatsumi himself would re-issue that Shidoshikai license".

    Hey Jeff, I have a shidoshi license but it states nothing about shidoshikai on it...
    With the current status quo.. of the Bujinkan.. I wouldn't say the shidoshi license means anything.. or is of value to anyone.
    But I will keep mine put away if things change.

    r.severe, kamiyama
     
  2. Don Roley

    Don Roley Senior Master

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    Ralph,
    You are helping to spread a mistaken impression. For the proper way of looking at things read the following link.

    http://www.jigokudojo.com/faqs.htm#teach

    Namely,

    As the above states, you need to be a member of the shidoshikai or you are not authorized to teach in the Bujinkan name. So people who, like you, say they do not have shidoshikai membership cards are not representative of the Bujinkan or authorized to teach in it's name. So "Dr Rod" is not authorized to teach in the Bujinkan name. And that is all there is to say about the matter.
     
  3. Jeff Boler

    Jeff Boler Blue Belt

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    I think it's a moot point now, as Rod is not using the Bujinkan name in his newsletters anymore. He simply refers to his Ninpo training under his Okuden Society. It's been several months since the word Bujinkan has appeared in any newsletter.

    And there are other issues as well, but they are not worth speculating at this time. I have heard rumors concerning the Juko Kai / Bujinkan Brotherhood relationship, but again, I have nothing definitive, so why discuss.

    Rod has recently been featured on a website about phony veterans.

    http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies1085.htm

    I sincerely hope that Rod is willing to admit some past mistakes, and make a positive change while he is able.
     
  4. r.severe

    r.severe Blue Belt

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    Well...
    Yes, what a wonderful and very good web site Don..
    Thanks for pointing it out to me..
    But really..
    The license of 'shidoshi' has nothing to do with the shidoshikai..
    If you take just a few seconds and read it.. nowhere does it state anything anbout shidoshikai..
    As well as myown doesn't.

    I got mine in 1989..
    It has been in a box from that time.. with other letters and photos from Sensei.

    So?

    What is written on a web site can be very misleading.
    Just ponder if I did the same on my web site,
    www.artofcombat.com on rules and licenses of Bujutsu ryu or the Bujinkan Dojo.
    It's all just written words and opinions.
    What matters is what happens on the mat.. not on paper. Right?

    ralph severe, kamiyama
     
  5. Cryozombie

    Cryozombie Grandmaster

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    No sir. That is incorrect.

    You paint. Perhaps you should start calling your Paintings "Disney Originals" based on that opinion.

    See where you wind up.

    When you use an organizations name, you follow their rules. It doesnt matter to me if someone is the master of combat or some fat hack pretending to teach fighting... if they do it under the Bujinkan Name, they need to follow the Bujinkan rules.

    Why?

    Because even if they are the Best and Brightest, if they LIE to me about what they teach, they arent worth learning from.

    Ponder that, and the meaning of honor.
     
  6. r.severe

    r.severe Blue Belt

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    No sir. That is incorrect.


    I see, but really I do not understand what you are saying is incorrect.
    Please make it clear.

    ralph severe, kamiyama
     
  7. Cryozombie

    Cryozombie Grandmaster

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    Ok. Plain and Simple.

    IF YOU CLAIM TO TEACH BUJINKAN TAIJUTSU YOU NEED TO FOLLOW THE OGANIZATIONAL RULES OF THE BUJINKAN INCLUDING MAINTAINING YOUR SHIDOSHI-KAI MEMBERSHIP.

    Clear enough?
     
  8. r.severe

    r.severe Blue Belt

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    When you use an organizations name, you follow their rules. It doesnt matter to me if someone is the master of combat or some fat hack pretending to teach fighting... if they do it under the Bujinkan Name, they need to follow the Bujinkan rules.
    **ky, I don’t disagree with this. I cannot recall anyone disagreeing with this. I cannot see how this has anything to do with what or what not a license states. I feel maybe you have what others say it states confused with what the license states in Hatsumi sensei handwriting. At no time during the past 25 years have I seen or heard or read Hatsumi sensei given out rules sheets personally or having a student sign an agreement to be a godan or shidoshi or any other license he has given out or promoted anyone to. I know so many shidoshi personally who are not in fact any members of any group but still are licensed as a shidoshi. This goes hand in hand with the many many people who are ranked below godan who are not members. This does not exclude their ranking or skills of the ranking. It only states it excludes their giving rank in the Bujinkan Dojo under Hatsumi sensei. So.. ? I feel this is a big misunderstand. You don’t need to be part of any organization to train or to teach your skills. You don’t need any organization to run a school or give ranking in what you teach. It’s your deal.. not anyone else’s. As I stated before, yes, if you use a organization name as in Japanese Karate Fat Hackskan and are not ranked in or given permission to pass ranking in than it wouldn’t be ‘right’ to do so. I personally do not know of anyone who does at this time who uses the name ‘wrongly ‘of any organization to in doing so. Do you? ****

    ralph severe, kamiyama
     
  9. Don Roley

    Don Roley Senior Master

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    Just because you have never heard of certain rules, does not mean they do not exist.

    The simple fact of the matter is that if you want to promote yourself as being a teacher of the Bujinkan and be listed on sites advertising local instructors, etc, then you need to be a member in good standing in the shidoshikai. When you are a member, you agree to follow the rules and standards of behavior. About the only thing that the Bujikan can do to enforce these rules is to threaten to throw you out of the shidoshikai.

    And I can think of a few people who left the Bujinkan just short of being thrown out and who insist on being treated the same as members in good standing. But this thread is not about them.

    Rod is not a member of the shidoshikai and according to Jeff has stopped using the name at all. Good.
     
  10. r.severe

    r.severe Blue Belt

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    Yes… so so true…
    With this statement you have made as well as others… It should also be said just because they have a license or a membership to any organization doesn’t mean anything in regards to knowledge of the ryu-ha, technique ability of the ryu-ha, fighting ability with the ryu-ha, training know how in the methodology of the ryu-ha, or just plain ability to fight their way out of a wet paper bag with a knife.

    This is not to take into account they most likely have no personal experience fighting to even teach fighting skills to others.

    So in the end what does a license mean and for the matter ranking?

    In my opinion it is shameful to use any name to promote yourself or use someone ele's name to make money.

    ralph severe, kamiyama
     
  11. Grey Eyed Bandit

    Grey Eyed Bandit Master of Arts

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    Before you say something like that you might want to take away a lot of things you've written on your homepage, as well as make it clear that you are no longer a member of the Bujinkan - because you are not.

    When I was younger, my mom used to tell me that everything that looks like a bird's nest in the trees isn't always a bird's nest. It could also be some kind of a tree disease that looks like a bird's nest. Therefore, it seemed quite odd to me that a tree disease could form it's own style of martial arts, fool hundreds of people as well as getting an honorary rank from an authentic Japanese martial art master. But now I know better. My mom lied to protect me. It was Rod Sacharnoski sitting up there in those trees.

    Now will someone please kill this thread, or even better, send it back to the abyss that spawned it?
     
  12. Don Roley

    Don Roley Senior Master

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    The above seems a bit off topic. But it may indeed have some relevence to the subject at hand.

    If being a member of the Bujinkan does not guarentee knowledge of the contents of the Bujinkan, then just how little can we expect from people that are not members at all? Or those who are/were, but only the bare minimum to qualify?

    There is something lacking in people like Rod and other ex-members of the Bujinkan that still try to teach the techniques. It is commitment and an honest drive to perfection. If you are going to do something, teach something, then the people that I respect never sit on their laurals and be satisfied with what they have achieved. They are always out there trying to gain new insights and lessons from those that know more than they. You can show up to someone like Bill Atkins every chance you get to learn from his wealth of experience. Atkins does not have many people who are suprior to him in America, so he comes to Japan as often as he can.

    Atkins is good, damn good. But he still takes every chance he gets to learn from the one man whom no one else is better at the Bujinkan- Hatsumi.

    I can think of a certain ex Bujinkan member who claims to be good, but really does not seem to have even a bare minimum of knowledge of the art IMO. When Hatsumi trained in his country, he would not go. He proclaimed that he was teaching more realistic stuff that Hatsumi, etc. But despite trying to post on certain sites talking about Bujinkan, etc, he never took the time to train in Japan for years. Then he failed to renew his membership after a funny little incident. I can probably find the documents posted on the internet in a short while. Hatsumi has said that the bad teachers do not need to be tossed out because they all go away on their own. I don't think this is because of anything mystical. I think it is because the bad teachers are more interested in teaching and being known as a macho sensei than they are in taming their ego long enough to learn. So they don't train with Hatsumi or anyone else who knows better than them.

    This is what I see in Rod. I do not see a great commitment to learn- only to be seen as a teacher. If he really wanted to follow what Hatsumi teaches he would start by losing some weight. I heard one Japanese teacher comment about someone, "Well, you can't expect anyone that big to have good taijutsu."

    And why should we believe Rod or other people who have been caught in lies (or those that follow them) that he is knowledgeable or combat effective? Unless there is proof in the form of a police report, etc, then I am not willing to trust the word of a proven liar or those that follow him. Trust is important. And those that make strange claims like Rod and have been caught in falsehoods should not be trusted. Especially when they show patterns of behavior for doing the bare minimum to gain recognition.
     
  13. r.severe

    r.severe Blue Belt

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    Before you say something like that you might want to take away a lot of things you've written on your homepage, as well as make it clear that you are no longer a member of the Bujinkan - because you are not.

    Nimravus, you were referring to me on this subject. If you were then maybe you should do research first and state it like it 'really' is..
    Here are the facts...
    I am not a member of the shidoshikai as of the first of this year and not a member as of the first of this year.. but I am still a student of the Soke in the Bujinkan Dojo and ranked and have a shidoshi license by him as a senior student.
    I just hope this is clear and is not taken out of context.
    It is really easy to mislead those who don't know the facts.
    Those are the facts.

    ralph severe, kamiyama
     
  14. Don Roley

    Don Roley Senior Master

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    Well, that is your opinion.

    It is the opinion of many of us that you really need to show a continuing effort to train with a person and follow what they say to deserve the title of student.
     
  15. Cryozombie

    Cryozombie Grandmaster

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    Mod. Note.
    The Questions raised in this thread Regarding the Juko-Kai and the Bujinkan have been asked and answered, and this thread is being closed.

    -Technopunk
    -MT Moderator-
    123
     
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