The Dark Knight.

arnisador

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Wow, amazing film! This is the best comic book movie I've ever seen, and is an excellent movie by any criterion. Great action, an amazing characterization by Heath Ledger--it's very satisfying!

There are things that weren't perfect. Many of the fight scenes were somewhat dark, for example. But this film lives up to the hype. Four stars ****!

P.S. The trailer for The Watchmen is very encouraging. The Spirit looks to be done Sin City-style. There was also an abbreviated T4 trailer.
 

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Wow, amazing film! This is the best comic book movie I've ever seen, and is an excellent movie by any criterion. Great action, an amazing characterization by Heath Ledger--it's very satisfying!

There are things that weren't perfect. Many of the fight scenes were somewhat dark, for example. But this film lives up to the hype. Four stars ****!

Dark as in evil or dark as in poor lighting????

P.S. The trailer for The Watchmen is very encouraging. The Spirit looks to be done Sin City-style. There was also an abbreviated T4 trailer.

I am looking forward to The Spirit...
 

Drac

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Yeah, Christian Bale is taking over as John Conner.

IMHO, T-3 was not that good...I dunno know if I'll bother with T-4 unless I hear some really positive reviews...
 
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arnisador

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Dark as in evil or dark as in poor lighting????

Poorly lit. It made it hard to appreciate a lot of Batman's hand-to-hand combat.

I am looking forward to The Spirit...

I never liked the comics very well. The movie trailer looked like Sin City 2! The style was exactly the same.

There was also a trailer for The Day The Earth Stood Still (Keanu Reeves). It hinted at a possible environmental theme.

The Watchmen really looks encouraging, however.
 

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Oh man, I hope they do Watchmen correctly. Please, please, please.
 

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Wow, amazing film! This is the best comic book movie I've ever seen, and is an excellent movie by any criterion. Great action, an amazing characterization by Heath Ledger--it's very satisfying!

There are things that weren't perfect. Many of the fight scenes were somewhat dark, for example. But this film lives up to the hype. Four stars ****!

P.S. The trailer for The Watchmen is very encouraging. The Spirit looks to be done Sin City-style. There was also an abbreviated T4 trailer.

Thanks for the review! I can't wait to see it! Maybe next week.
Me? I am off right now to see "Space Chimps" with the family. :)
 

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I admit that I was rather underwhelmed with "Batman Begins" compared to the hype so I've already got a cynical attitude about this one
 
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arnisador

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The origin story is over, so this can jump in with both feet and hit the ground running. Give it a chance!
 

FearlessFreep

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well the origin story was part of it.

But most of what was supposed to be "darker, grittier, more realistic" was really just a matter of production; lighting, camera angles and sets.. and I rarely give those kinds of things much credit for really creating the movie. Yeah, they are nice to add to the total atmosphere of a movie, but they don't give the movie something it doesn't have.

Looking past that, this is what I had

1) Story- Not counting the origin story, the whole plot was inane. Poison the water supply and then steal a secret highly-convenient weapon to turn water into mist so that everybody inhales the poison into having nightmares. Good grief but that is a seriously stupid "bad guy" plot. Too much coincidence, contrivance and convenience there to be take seriously. *Most* bag-guy-plots in superhero movies are pretty dumb on the face of it so that's no big knock on it as another superhero movie plot, but then don't expect me to elevate my thoughts of this movie amongst any others.

2) Talk - Christian Bale, when you are Bruce Wayne you are not Batman, stop whispering everything and growling out your dialog, *talk*.

3) Characterization - Batman didn't have the professionalism I would expect. He did some decidedly non-Batman actions and attempts. Watching him run from the cops was like watching Antonio Banderas put on a costume and run through town claiming to be Zorro. No, the real Zorro is back in the bat-cave, you're just an amateur in the suit.

4. Acting/Dialog/Directing - Not sure who to pin this one on but..the soap-opera, over-melodramatic line-delivery...ugh "Is there anyone here who *doesn't* have amnesia?" *That* is not 'gritty realism', that is 'lazy'. Realism is taking the time to flesh out a three dimensional character in the dialog and the acting and the directing. Having everyone over-dramatize every line and every exchange os just..well, people don't talk like that. Even in emergencies or in serious situations. Sure, it adds for "drama" but not for "believability" or "empathy"

Overall it wasn't too bad a movie. I watch much worse on a regular basis. It was a decent entertainment with B movie level acting/directing and C movie level story and some pretty good production values. Not nearly, in my opinion, the great movie the hype has it to be.

and speaking of the Origin Story, the first Batman movie by Burton got it right. Right into the action, very light backstory told throughout, mostly through flashbacks. Non-intrusive and the audience didn't have to suffer through half a movie to get on with the character. (although almost get the feeling that Nolan just wanted to tell an origin story but had to throw in the bad guys to make it an action/super-hero movie).

Also, on the subject. the main character is a guy who dress up like a *bat* to fight crime. Remember at core how silly an idea that is. You've got a simple backstory that "said crimefighter is rich was access to lot's of cool tech" .. don't bury yourself in the minutia of going shopping for a utility belt and a pimping out your wings... Work within the reality of the fantasy setting and just go with it and don't try to justify it all to be taken seriously, but treat the fantasy as serious in its on right and people will come along for the ride. Otherwise you end up in the uncanny valley. (A *lot* of vampire movies in the last thirty years or so have fallen into this trap...too much time trying to justify vampires exist in a 'modern' world)
 

shesulsa

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Well, the movies are based on the comic book series and several graphic novels. So, it's kind of like making a movie about Moby Dick where all he does is fight the whale and the rest is all short flash-backs. Doesn't really do the whole point of a tribute film justice, eh?
 

MA-Caver

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well the origin story was part of it.

But most of what was supposed to be "darker, grittier, more realistic" was really just a matter of production; lighting, camera angles and sets.. and I rarely give those kinds of things much credit for really creating the movie. Yeah, they are nice to add to the total atmosphere of a movie, but they don't give the movie something it doesn't have.

Looking past that, this is what I had
Fearless... my take... on your take...
1) Story- Not counting the origin story, the whole plot was inane. Poison the water supply and then steal a secret highly-convenient weapon to turn water into mist so that everybody inhales the poison into having nightmares. Good grief but that is a seriously stupid "bad guy" plot. Too much coincidence, contrivance and convenience there to be take seriously. *Most* bag-guy-plots in superhero movies are pretty dumb on the face of it so that's no big knock on it as another superhero movie plot, but then don't expect me to elevate my thoughts of this movie amongst any others.
True a lot of bad guy plots are dumb, but then a lot of bad guy plots are right out of the comics and that's what this is... a comic book movie. Besides they had to do something with the significance of the little blue flower, his ninja training and Raul Al Gul right? Tie it all in together.
Oh and in case you didn't know it... movies like this... I tend to leave my brain in the car. I enjoy it more.


2) Talk - Christian Bale, when you are Bruce Wayne you are not Batman, stop whispering everything and growling out your dialog, *talk*.
Bale was never a strong speaking person. His other movies will attest to that. Also remember why he chose "the Bat!" Raul Al Gul even explained it just into his first few days of training that to choose something that your enemies will fear. Thanks to your aforementioned vampire movies a lot of people (incorrectly and needlessly I might stress) fear bats. Likewise his first major fear was the bats that came out of the cave at the bottom of the well that he fell into.
Growling at certain villains here and there was a bit contrived but it probably worked for some people. Personally I think Bale is able to carry it off but my heart still goes for Keaton who surprised everyone with his take on the dual personality crime fighter with a personal vendetta.

3) Characterization - Batman didn't have the professionalism I would expect. He did some decidedly non-Batman actions and attempts. Watching him run from the cops was like watching Antonio Banderas put on a costume and run through town claiming to be Zorro. No, the real Zorro is back in the bat-cave, you're just an amateur in the suit.
Well at the time the cops didn't know he was on their side. Not to mention they were shooting at him and called a heavily armed SWAT team to boot. Would you stand around and try to explain yourself? Neither would I. But at least he managed to befriend Gordon who would eventually help him clean out the corruption in the department that was there in the first place.

4. Acting/Dialog/Directing - Not sure who to pin this one on but..the soap-opera, over-melodramatic line-delivery...ugh "Is there anyone here who *doesn't* have amnesia?" *That* is not 'gritty realism', that is 'lazy'. Realism is taking the time to flesh out a three dimensional character in the dialog and the acting and the directing. Having everyone over-dramatize every line and every exchange os just..well, people don't talk like that. Even in emergencies or in serious situations. Sure, it adds for "drama" but not for "believability" or "empathy"
True, no everyone talks with a comic book dialog in mind. But it is after all a comic book movie.

Overall it wasn't too bad a movie. I watch much worse on a regular basis. It was a decent entertainment with B movie level acting/directing and C movie level story and some pretty good production values. Not nearly, in my opinion, the great movie the hype has it to be.
Agreed... not as great as Burton's vision but not so bad that I walk out of the theater and into another (which I've done several times before if dissatisfied with what I paid for).

and speaking of the Origin Story, the first Batman movie by Burton got it right. Right into the action, very light backstory told throughout, mostly through flashbacks. Non-intrusive and the audience didn't have to suffer through half a movie to get on with the character. (although almost get the feeling that Nolan just wanted to tell an origin story but had to throw in the bad guys to make it an action/super-hero movie).
Actually if you're a true DK fan you'd see that the "origin story" was wrong on both accounts. The murder of his parents yes, was done right... but his decision to become a bat was wrong. If you recall... In the Mansion Wayne is pacing the study in front of the fireplace after making his fateful decision to fight crime in honor of his parents and free Gotham citizens from the corruption that was plaguing their fair city (sorry), he was wondering what can he become to strike fear into the hearts of his enemies (criminals)??? Just then a bat flies into the room via an open window and "That's IT! I'll become a bat!"

Also, on the subject. the main character is a guy who dress up like a *bat* to fight crime. Remember at core how silly an idea that is. You've got a simple backstory that "said crime fighter is rich was access to lot's of cool tech" .. don't bury yourself in the minutia of going shopping for a utility belt and a pimping out your wings... Work within the reality of the fantasy setting and just go with it and don't try to justify it all to be taken seriously, but treat the fantasy as serious in its on right and people will come along for the ride. Otherwise you end up in the uncanny valley. (A *lot* of vampire movies in the last thirty years or so have fallen into this trap...too much time trying to justify vampires exist in a 'modern' world)
At the core, yes it is pretty silly. So is a guy who dresses up in skin-tight red and blue leotards swinging from building to building or (again) skin-tight red and blue leotards that flies everywhere and is the only registered (real) alien from the planet, and so on.
Burton's first Batman film focused a lot on the origins of the Joker and then killed him off, go figure that one out.
I think showing how he acquired his "wonderful toys" a bit at a time was a good way to show that instead of volia there it all is. They knew they were going to make a sequel so better to explain it all now and it's out of the way for the next film. It also gave Morgan Freeman an excuse to be there. I think if they went straight into it, belt, car, and other "wonderful toys" then that would've been jumping into the uncanny valley right?
Kinda go figure also that the Wayne/Batman character is an extremely complex character in of by itself. Not easy to tell his story.

One last thing... kinda funny that guys our age are taking this comic book story seriously enough to have these kind of in-depth discussions huh?


Right.
Escapism. :D

p.s. I think Batman Returns was/is still the best of them all so far. Devito's Penguin and Phiffer's Catwoman absolutely rocked.
 

FearlessFreep

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Actually if you're a true DK fan you'd see that the "origin story" was wrong on both accounts

I just meant "got it right" from the point of the movie pacing and story telling narrative point of view.

Personally I think Bale is able to carry it off but my heart still goes for Keaton who surprised everyone with his take on the dual personality crime fighter with a personal vendetta.

I think Keaton nailed the dual personality better than most I've seen. For Clooney, it seemed like Batman was Bruce Wayne in the bat-suit and for Bale it seemed like Bruce Wayne was Batman in a tux. Keaton portrayed the Wayne/Batman duality with more complexity and subtlety and hit the pitch pretty well

For the most part, my point wasn't that it was a bad movie. It was a decent comic-book super-hero adaptation into a movie. It's entertaining and when it shows up on TV, I watch it if I can.

Most of my dislikes of the movie is that it's painted as a "gritty, realistic" superhero movie. All the hype talks bout Nolan's 'vision' for this world that Batman lives in. However, most of what gives "Batman Begins" it's 'realism' is in areas that can be pretty much bought... lighting, camera work, sets, etc... production values. What really brings a story to life as far as making you sit up and think "these are real people I can relate to" are those areas that are far more abstract; acting, dialog, story, etc.. and from that point of view, "Batman Begins" was pretty much just another run-of-the-mill superhero movie with some pretty strong deficiencies. I don't dislike the movie, I dislike the way the movie is sold to me : )
 
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arnisador

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I think Keaton nailed the dual personality better than most I've seen. For Clooney, it seemed like Batman was Bruce Wayne in the bat-suit and for Bale it seemed like Bruce Wayne was Batman in a tux. Keaton portrayed the Wayne/Batman duality with more complexity and subtlety and hit the pitch pretty well

Well put, and I agree. But the last two movies are hitting the right tone for the world in which he operates; they're upping the realism; and, they're keeping the production values very high. Michael Keaton did catch that duality well...but that duality isn't the focus here. In the current movie it's the hero/anti-hero issue and the shades of grey in between.

Dude, see it!
 

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Batman Begins was a terrific comic book movie. Dark Knight is just a terrific movie.

I will not be surprised if Heath Ledger takes a posthumous oscar for Best Supporting Actor this year. And Aaron Eckhart was terrific as Harvey Dent. Oh, and Maggie Gyllenhaal was much better than Katie Holmes. Katie Holmes' irritating habit of talking and smiling out of one side of her mouth makes her appear to suffer from Bell's Palsy or something. It was distracting and unnattractive.
 

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