Study Groups

[skribs]

For those students who have organized study groups to meet outside of normal class times, did you have a practice routine? Just pick things to drill? How did that work for you?

I'm starting a study group with the other 3rd degree black belts at my school, and we have a few ideas for a study plan, but I'm curious to hear other opinions.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

i haven't done one, nor would it be contextual to you.

But usually its covering one or two choice subjects each time. i have a more interest in mixed martial arts study groups, so that would mean (in principle anyway) some people show up who all have their experiences etc and who ever organizes it or via group consensus decides a topic to cover so you exchange how each of you does it and can teach each other some aspects they don't know.

Also if all else fails just hold a class vote on what they want to cover if you haven't advertised it as a specific subject. Or if there are multiple things in said subject hold a vote on what they want to do.

It might be good if you open up a open study group to get influences from outside the two you do as well.


I wouldn't really advise a study group as being as structured as a normal class though/as strict, let it be more free flowing. that would probably utilize the format better as tangents on specifics should really be done there at least.

 

[skribs]

i haven't done one, nor would it be contextual to you.

But usually its covering one or two choice subjects each time. i have a more interest in mixed martial arts study groups, so that would mean (in principle anyway) some people show up who all have their experiences etc and who ever organizes it or via group consensus decides a topic to cover so you exchange how each of you does it and can teach each other some aspects they don't know.

Also if all else fails just hold a class vote on what they want to cover if you haven't advertised it as a specific subject. Or if there are multiple things in said subject hold a vote on what they want to do.

It might be good if you open up a open study group to get influences from outside the two you do as well.


I wouldn't really advise a study group as being as structured as a normal class though/as strict, let it be more free flowing. that would probably utilize the format better as tangents on specifics should really be done there at least.

Have you started taking classes yet?

 

[Xue Sheng]

I was in one for Wing Chun and the focus was on Chi Sau
I was also in one for Taijiquan and the main thing we did was push hands, but we also worked on other things, such as applications, as it hit our collective fancy.

Both seemed to have a root reason for the group, but there was room for tangents to that and expansions on the theme

 

[skribs]

I was in one for Wing Chun and the focus was on Chi Sau
I was also in one for Taijiquan and the main thing we did was push hands, but we also worked on other things, such as applications, as it hit our collective fancy.

Both seemed to have a root reason for the group, but there was room for tangents to that and expansions on the theme

The thing I get out of that (and correct me if I'm wrong) but those are both partner drills, things that are hard to practice on your own. How did your study group differ from class, if anything?

 

[Xue Sheng]

The thing I get out of that (and correct me if I'm wrong) but those are both partner drills, things that are hard to practice on your own. How did your study group differ from class, if anything?

Was not really structured like a class and there was much discussion on what was being practiced. There was no "Shifu" in charge and no syllabus to follow. They were not drills, there was nothing choreographed. This was live training with applications while attempting to stay within the style. So basically you could get hit in the head, kicked, thrown on the ground.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've done a bit of study group stuff over the years. A bunch of it was with my then-girlfriend, who started NGA when I went back after a short time off (I was still a white belt, so we were near the same experience level). With her, we set aside time outside classes to go to a local park area with good grass (we had dogs - not safe to roll around in our lawn!). We didn't plan a lot. We'd spend a little time working on falls and rolls, practice a bit of basic movement (to see how it felt on the less-even surface), and then just work on whatever we needed to work on. It might be the latest techniques we'd learned, techniques we needed to polish for testing, something we were struggling with, or just something we were keen to focus on that time. It wasn't structured, except that we'd set aside about an hour for it.

With senior students at the school, we'd often do work outside class to help someone prep for their brown or black belt test (especially the defense line). One of us who had a key would have to be there, and the only real structure was whatever that person wanted to work on.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Have you started taking classes yet?

See previous posts, and none of your business.

 

[skribs]

See previous posts, and none of your business.

Well, on the one hand, the last time we talked, you hadn't.
But I'm going to assume you still haven't, because most people wouldn't react so defensively to that question. Especially on a Martial Arts forum where we talk about our training, especially in a thread discussing classes.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Well, on the one hand, the last time we talked, you hadn't.
But I'm going to assume you still haven't, because most people wouldn't react so defensively to that question. Especially on a Martial Arts forum where we talk about our training, especially in a thread discussing classes.

You are welcome to form your opinion, i have given many legitimate replied to this message, and you will only be directed back to all previous replies i have made to the question. Which is what i made abundantly clear previously. (to multiple people)

And my reply the question clearly doesn't matter to you so much or else you would have kept up in other threads when it was asked.

 

[Headhunter]

See previous posts, and none of your business.

His point is that you spend a lot of time giving advice on martial arts but don't actually train it yourself so you saying things about what works or what's effective and what's not effective sounds kind of empty when you don't actually have experience....just saying

 

[Headhunter]

See previous posts, and none of your business.

Sooooo...no then?

 

[skribs]

You are welcome to form your opinion, i have given many legitimate replied to this message, and you will only be directed back to all previous replies i have made to the question. Which is what i made abundantly clear previously. (to multiple people)

And my reply the question clearly doesn't matter to you so much or else you would have kept up in other threads when it was asked.

I've checked back in those threads from time to time, but lately I haven't seen a reply. However, I have notifications turned off for your posts, so a lot of times I miss those.

What @Headhunter said is correct. You've acquired a lot of information from articles you've read, but not much experience actually training an art. Now, you have the option of gaining that experience, but you choose not to take classes. At this point, you are willfully ignorant on how martial arts actually work.

The reason I bring it up, is because I see you are very passionate about martial arts, and it would behoove you to take classes and actually gain the experience. You might also learn a bit of humility, which will work wonders as well.

 

[wab25]

I have done the small group thing before... and the I am here an hour early and have the floor to practice on my own until class starts thing as well.

The first, and to me, most important thing to do is to practice the basics. Really break them down and study them. For Karate, I currently spend about 30 minutes before class just walking slowly. Forward and backward in front stance, then back stance, cat stance, horse stance... I take each step slow, trying to find the correct muscles to use, to make the correct shapes and stay on balance the entire time. Then I add in stepping and punching or blocking, again nice and slow, studying each part of it.

The second thing I like to do in these small groups is play with things. So, what happens if this block were a strike or a parry or a grab? Since I am mainly a jujitsu guy... what if the other guy is holding my wrist like this, when I do this part of the kata... try it and see what happens. What if he grabs like that? What if I grab him before returning my hand to chamber... is this still a punch, or an armbar or a throw? What if he is coming in for a double leg or single leg, when I am doing this part of the kata?

Then there is the striking stuff. In class, we always use this block to block a straight punch from that hand... what if its the other hand that punches? or a hook punch? Or and over hand punch? Can I change the distance or timing or angle to make it work there too? Maybe I need to be closer to use the non-blocking hand (the one that will be chambering) as a parry before the chamber?

So, I like to spend most of the time on the basics. Break them down and do them slowly, focusing on every part. If there is a part of a kata I am not happy with, work on that part for a while. Then for a few minutes play the what if game and see what you can find. I have found lots of stupid things... but I have also found a bunch of very cool things I would have missed along the way.

 

[skribs]

Then there is the striking stuff. In class, we always use this block to block a straight punch from that hand... what if its the other hand that punches? or a hook punch? Or and over hand punch? Can I change the distance or timing or angle to make it work there too? Maybe I need to be closer to use the non-blocking hand (the one that will be chambering) as a parry before the chamber?

I find that a lot of blocks work equally well for a hook or a straight punch, but it's the uppercuts that are a bit of an odd duck.

 

[dvcochran]

It is a very good practice to allow you to highly focus on specific elements without the hustle and bustle of regular classes. When we did them it usually started with comments stemming from regular class like "I wish we did X more" or "how is that combination in Koryo applied?" We would create a loose group and a pliable lesson plan and go from there.

@skribs, @Dirty Dog, Sorry to hijack this thread but I was already planning to reach out to you. While working on Koryo with several BB's, most of which have not been around as long as me, it became apparent I learned it the older TSD/MDK Koryo and there are certain moves different from the Kukkiwon way. Particularly the elbow in the line at the top of the form. I learned it done in a deep horse stance, with the palm UP on the striking elbow arm, targeting a lower midsection area like lower ribs or solar plexus. Others were doing the Kukkiwon style elbow with the palm down (or turned in which was unclear and adding confusion to the discussion). When I asked what they were targeting no one had an answer. Watching videos when I got home could not clearly identify a target to me because all the palm down elbows look to be striking about shoulder level. The stance is quite a lot higher.
What is your take on this?

 

[skribs]

@dvcochran Kukkiwon likes the higher stances. Look at the Taegeuk forms compared to the older Palgwe forms. My Master recently told us of a lot of changes to Koryo, most of which make it easier to do, and less aesthetically pleasing (in my opinion). Shallower stances, less hip movement, some movements that used to be done with 2 hands are now done with one.

Personally, I like the older way of doing things.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

How did your study group differ from class, if anything?

I ask my guys to collect data, record on video, and send to me.

For example, here is an E-mail that I just sent to my guys (I'm in California, they are in Texas).

Next time when you 2 meet, could you 2 make a 2 minutes video and send to me.

In the

- 1st minute, A throws punches at B's head. B tries to use rhino guard to deal with. B then tries to achieve arm wrap head lock during A's punches. When B can achieve that, the match stop, next round will start.

- 2nd minute, A and B just reverse the position.

When one tries to achieve arm wrap head lock, the other guy will pull his punch back in normal combat speed (not to let his arm to hang there).

We need to record after how many punches that you can use your rhino guard to achieve a successful head lock.

We need to accumulate more data such as:

Can you achieve head lock within

- 10 punches?
- 8 punches,
- 6 punches,
- 4 punches?
- 2 punches?
- …

Send me the clip after you have done it. Take more than 2 minutes if needed.

 

[JowGaWolf]

For those students who have organized study groups to meet outside of normal class times, did you have a practice routine? Just pick things to drill? How did that work for you?

We picked things that we needed to practice, things we weren't good at. It worked well. It was mainly an independent study with the exception of the forms that we already knew. We would start by first practicing the forms that we were already good at (to keep those fresh) then we would practice techniques and forms that needed work (this is where the study session splits into our own thing).

It works well, right up until a "lower belt" asks the "higher belt" how to do something. The teaching takes up training time.

 

[dvcochran]

@dvcochran Kukkiwon likes the higher stances. Look at the Taegeuk forms compared to the older Palgwe forms. My Master recently told us of a lot of changes to Koryo, most of which make it easier to do, and less aesthetically pleasing (in my opinion). Shallower stances, less hip movement, some movements that used to be done with 2 hands are now done with one.

Personally, I like the older way of doing things.

I find myself in this quandary more and more. Do I do a form the way I was taught or try to conform to the new ways? I lean hard toward the former. Especially when I can make a valid argument as to why one way works better or has more purpose than the other.