Striking, Sparring and CTE

[Gerry Seymour]

while that may be true. My guess a minor bump this week, a minor bump next week, another minor bump 2 weeks later wouldn't qualify as "enough healing time." If we hit a bruise with the same frequency, it wouldn't heal properly either. The bigger the bruise the more damaging the repeated impacts would be. For soft tissue like the brain I would think this would be even more so. From what they do understand about CTE, it's the repetitiveness that causes the damage.

People who have head injuries from accidents don't display similar CTE damage as those who have had repetitive impacts.

This is the healing time for traumatic brain injuries
"The person continues to improve between six months and two years after injury, but this varies for different people and may not happen as fast as the first six months. Improvements slow down substantially after two years but may still occur many years after injury."

Not sure if there is a study for minor bumps.

There have been studies of repetitive injury via more minor bumps (including heading the ball in soccer) that aren't viewed as injuries in the moment. While they do show a correlation that probably demonstrates causality, there's just not enough info yet on what the healing time is. We really know fairly little about how the brain heals - not that long ago, it was largely believed that it didn't do much of that. So, we just don't know what those passing bumps in the head during groundwork, jostling of the head when taking a bad fall from a throw, and light hits during moderate sparring will add up to.

 

[pdg]

There have been studies of repetitive injury via more minor bumps (including heading the ball in soccer) that aren't viewed as injuries in the moment. While they do show a correlation that probably demonstrates causality, there's just not enough info yet on what the healing time is. We really know fairly little about how the brain heals - not that long ago, it was largely believed that it didn't do much of that. So, we just don't know what those passing bumps in the head during groundwork, jostling of the head when taking a bad fall from a throw, and light hits during moderate sparring will add up to.

Considering how little is truly known, it could be said that you're at as much risk from slumping heavily into the sofa while holding a beer, getting a bit enthusiastic with the head nodding at a concert or even excessive facepalming when confronted with the actions of the general population...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Considering how little is truly known, it could be said that you're at as much risk from slumping heavily into the sofa while holding a beer, getting a bit enthusiastic with the head nodding at a concert or even excessive facepalming when confronted with the actions of the general population...

Possibly. None of the evidence has shown that level of risk. I think there was one that looked at headbanging some years ago, but I forget what their conclusion was. Maybe because of all that headbanging in high school.

 

[now disabled]

Possibly. None of the evidence has shown that level of risk. I think there was one that looked at headbanging some years ago, but I forget what their conclusion was. Maybe because of all that headbanging in high school.

Or the practicing of breakfalls in motel rooms lol

 

[now disabled]

It is a serious subject tho that more research needs to be done on, Even the rugby world is starting to take notice now of even the inkling of head injury. They do do a test of field before a person can return and if they do not pass the test they do not get to get back in the game and then will face a mandatory lay off

 

[FriedRice]

Study suggests blows to the head that don’t cause concussions can still cause CTE

Watched Rogan’s show with Ben Askren. They discussed how prevalent CTE is becoming within the MMA and NFL.

Think long and hard before training MMA before you can’t think at all.

That's why training MMA is the highest level of Martial Arts training. But people on here often cry when confronted with this reality.

 

[pdg]

That's why I think training MMA is the highest level of Martial Arts training for me. But people on here often disagree when confronted with this opinion, which is all it is because it's not verifiable.

Edited and added to for accuracy.

Hth.

 

[Headhunter]

That's why training MMA is the highest level of Martial Arts training. But people on here often cry when confronted with this reality.

So you think getting brain damage is a good thing....smart...

 

[Headhunter]

Edited and added to for accuracy.

Hth.

Yeah I really don't get his comment....the op says how Mma is likely to give you brain damage and he replies. This proves Mma is the ultimate martial art....um what? I'm thinking he may have trained to much Mma if you know what I mean

 

[skribs]

I see the other side of it, too. Most of those "kung fu master fights MMA fighter" videos feature someone who has honed the perfect technique, but never sparred, and as soon as he takes one hit he's basically done for. I don't know if it's that he's never actually been punched or if its that he is shocked his perfect technique let an attack through, but after that it quickly becomes a TKO.

Should you need to defend yourself, I think part of martial arts training is getting used to taking a hit or two and keeping your wits about you.

The other thing is that pain is a powerful teacher. I'm not advocating for brain injury, but if you're sparring, you learn how to avoid hits because you generally don't want to get hit. Another thing that could be important should you need to defend yourself.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I see the other side of it, too. Most of those "kung fu master fights MMA fighter" videos feature someone who has honed the perfect technique, but never sparred, and as soon as he takes one hit he's basically done for. I don't know if it's that he's never actually been punched or if its that he is shocked his perfect technique let an attack through, but after that it quickly becomes a TKO.

Should you need to defend yourself, I think part of martial arts training is getting used to taking a hit or two and keeping your wits about you.

The other thing is that pain is a powerful teacher. I'm not advocating for brain injury, but if you're sparring, you learn how to avoid hits because you generally don't want to get hit. Another thing that could be important should you need to defend yourself.

Agreed. That's part of the trade-off we all have to consider (those of us training to be able to fight/defend). More real hits will - to some extent - toughen reactions and reduce the surprise of being hit. But every real hit carries some risk of real injury, and we don't really know right now where the line might be crossed that leads to permanent brain injury.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Agreed. That's part of the trade-off we all have to consider (those of us training to be able to fight/defend). More real hits will - to some extent - toughen reactions and reduce the surprise of being hit. But every real hit carries some risk of real injury, and we don't really know right now where the line might be crossed that leads to permanent brain injury.

My rule for sparring is that the student has to be able to defend against the majority of the strikes to the head (more than 65% of the strike). If the student can do this then 1of three things will happen :
1. Pulled from sparring
2. Forced to only spar with me
3. Forced to only spar with someone on the same skill level.

There's just no benefit to cosistantly eat punches everytime you spar. After you get to a certain skill level, there no need to connect to the head with a strike in order to know you could have landed a solid punch.

 

[FriedRice]

So you think getting brain damage is a good thing....smart...

Of course this scares you, that's why you train Krav Maga.

 

[FriedRice]

Yeah I really don't get his comment....the op says how Mma is likely to give you brain damage and he replies. This proves Mma is the ultimate martial art....um what? I'm thinking he may have trained to much Mma if you know what I mean

MMA is def. not for weak men, that's for sure.

 

[FriedRice]

Edited and added to for accuracy.

Hth.

If you can't handle it, then it's obviously is a higher level of training. The truth just hurts. You think MMA fighters can't go to your gym and memorize kata?

 

[FriedRice]

My rule for sparring is that the student has to be able to defend against the majority of the strikes to the head (more than 65% of the strike). If the student can do this then 1of three things will happen :
1. Pulled from sparring
2. Forced to only spar with me
3. Forced to only spar with someone on the same skill level.

There's just no benefit to cosistantly eat punches everytime you spar. After you get to a certain skill level, there no need to connect to the head with a strike in order to know you could have landed a solid punch.

Don't you find that when you put 2 people "on the same skill level" together, that that's usually when wars erupt? They are usually rivals (in a friendly way) at the gym. And most people also holds grudges which is just competitiveness.

Getting hit 35% of the time at 50% power to the head can still = a concussion.

 

[FriedRice]

This thread exposes a lot of people who claims to train really rough and tough or "the real thing" ....yet they're afraid of CTE? It's like playing full contact football but asking that nobody hits you. Because even if you train in some strip mall TKD joint, you can still get a concussion from a good kick to the head during average sparring, with those cheap Century headgear on. Even with my $100 headgear, I'm sure that a TKD BB can knock me out with 1 good kick.

Sparring can be light or even just touch sparring, but **** can go down and someone gets mad or thinks they got hit harder than what was agreed upon, and it turns into a war. I've been to Kung-Fu joints where there was def. head trauma sparring and it was light to medium power.

So I just wonder where you experts are training where nobody hits you in the head, even mildly (that will result in that CTE down the road). Because your 1st ever, hard sparing session....EVER.... should give you at least a mild concussion and your head will ring all night and probably the next day too. This just tells me that you never even sparred hard and maybe not even at medium power.

 

[skribs]

My rule for sparring is that the student has to be able to defend against the majority of the strikes to the head (more than 65% of the strike). If the student can do this then 1of three things will happen :
1. Pulled from sparring
2. Forced to only spar with me
3. Forced to only spar with someone on the same skill level.

There's just no benefit to cosistantly eat punches everytime you spar. After you get to a certain skill level, there no need to connect to the head with a strike in order to know you could have landed a solid punch.

I assume you meant "if the student can't do this". Yes, I agree. You shouldn't just eat punches. But you should take a few light to medium hits so when you do take a hit you know how to.

One of the kids at my dojang didn't listen to me when I was coaching him in a tournament. He'd just gotten his black belt, and despite us saying "keep your hands up" in class since white belt, still was a bit lazy on it. The other kid got like 12 head shots on him in 1 round. They called the match after that round and didn't let it go into round 2 or 3, because of so many head hits.

So I definitely understand it's a balance.

 

[Headhunter]

MMA is def. not for weak men, that's for sure.

Cool story bro

 

[Headhunter]

Of course this scares you, that's why you train Krav Maga.

Yep just like I train Muay Thai, boxing, Bjj, western kickboxing and had multiple fights in each of them. With your dumb comments I've lost all respect for you so don't bother replying I'll just ignore you