Peace!
Can I make amends by offering you a bottle of cough syrup gone bad, otherwise known as Manishevitz? :rofl::cheers:
Split from Christianity and Self-Defense article topic
- Thread starter Tez3
- Start date
Peace!
Can I make amends by offering you a bottle of cough syrup gone bad, otherwise known as Manishevitz? :rofl::cheers:
Its funny, here in Canada, everyone Ive ever had a relationship with has been RC, with me being CoI, and no one cared. I dont know if the family would be so open minded if I lived over there
Various reasons I became an Atheist, the imaginary friend part is definitely one of them, (God, Jesus, Santa, the Great Pumpkin, the Tooth fairy all the same to me ), the hypocrisy, the strength of the sciences, violent history, and people tossing bombs through the front window of family members, doesnt endear oneself towards religion.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #223
Sadly though the Troubles never really had much to do with religion, it was always about the power of sovereigns, land and political power. Later it became about gangs, drugs and crime which it is now. Religion was the mask worn to garner followers.
Faiths rarely actually have anything to do with wars, it's always as I've said before about power, land and wealth.
I know.
Bruno@MT
Senior Master
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2009
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If I were to start a religion using the word 'the' as a holy word, does that mean that you would from then on refrain from using that word?
Personally, I think that words have only the power you grant them.
Just because you put special meaning to a word does not mean that my use of that word has to mean the same thing to me.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #226
Bruno, he's not expecting it to mean anything to anyone other than himself. We don't expect you to think or believe what we do, he was answering a question about how he thought and felt about it. We don't speak for others only ourselves.
If you start a religion using the word 'the' as a holy word, it's just a holy word to you, we'd use it unless it was the name of a god.
Hey sure, why not. But please send some Matzo Ball soup with it. Tastes yummy and soaks up the extra alcohol when you've overindulged. :lfao:
OP
- Thread Starter
- #228
Hey sure, why not. But please send some Matzo Ball soup with it. Tastes yummy and soaks up the extra alcohol. :lfao:
You see? All Jewish discussions on religion end up like this....discussing food and drink! In fact all Jewish discussions on anything end up like this!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #230
There's nothing better for universal understanding and sympathy than sitting down together eating good food and drinking good wine! Hard to feel grumpy on a comfortably full stomach!
thardey
Master Black Belt
I have friends who are elders in the Mormon church (or LDS, as some prefer) one who is a Bishop, and I am friends with his son, who is on his way to being a Bishop.
I've spent over a year in a weekly Bible study at my house with JW's, though I haven't attended their church.
I studied for a year and a half with a non-religious Jew, who was volunteering to teach modern Hebrew to a bunch of Christians. He often tried to explain "Jewishness" to us, with respect on both sides.
My wife's family is Roman Catholic, and last month we had a fun discussion with her cousin on the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
A good friend of mine recently was baptised into the Eastern Orthodox Church. We've had many discussions about his "conversion."
I was baptised in a Church of Christ, Married in a Baptist Church, interned under a Reform church, and now am ordained in the Assemblies of God (Pentecostal.)
And even though I've known and studied with and respected these people who all came from different backgrounds and faiths. There is only one thing that I would be comfortable in speaking on their behalf, and surprisingly, it is the same thing for all of them:
"Please don't try to explain to me what I believe!"
Telling a Jew what Jews believe based on a website. (Any website) is insulting. If the Jewish culture could be explained that easily, then why bother with actually studying the Talmud? Let's just look this all up on Wikipedia, and be done with it! [/sarcasm]
Telling me what I believe as a Christian, let alone what branch I must fall into, or what I qualify for, or what my goals are, based on a few bad examples is equally insulting.
Saying things like "Christians want to convert everybody." Is an extremely loaded statement. There are many, many different interpretations as to what that means. What it means to me is probably different than what it means to many other Christians. Obviously there's issues with free will and God's will there. Since God gave free will (also a loaded statement) we have to respect that. Yet it also says that God does not will that any should perish.
Saying "X-brand church is not Christian" is also extremely loaded. Do you mean "Not going to heaven?" or do you mean "Not only saved through faith in Jesus' death on the cross?" or do you mean "Forgiven through Jesus' death, but now accountable for your actions?" Or do you mean "Ascribes to the Nicene Creed?" Or the "Athanasian Creed?" Or do you mean "their doctrine doesn't represent mine, so I won't defend it?" Or do you mean "X church has chosen to separate themselves from a body of 'Christian' churches, and call themeselves the 'Only true Christian Church?'"
RC's and Protestants, and Eastern Orthodox (That I know) hold to the Nicene Creed. JW's that I know do not. Some Mormons do, and some don't, depending on how they interpret it. Obviously, Jew's don't!
As far as being "Jewish" -- the question that keeps getting asked over and over again: "Why can't you be Jewish and a Christian?" has been answered more by the actions and responses, than by any specific argument. Look back over the thread as a whole and you will see it by example.
Christians, if they are willing to believe the message of Jesus, are compelled to share their beliefs with those who are interested. (Jesus made it clear several times that those who weren't interested were to be left alone.) Jesus commanded "Go, make disciples of all nations."
Part of the core of Jewish culture is to specifically not do that. (As was stated several times, and quite clearly, by Tez and Canuck.)
Therefore, if a Jew follows the teachings of Jesus and Paul/Saul, then he/she will be acting in opposition to the heritage of Jewish culture. So, you cannot be living a "Christian" life in harmony with the "Jewish" life. You would end up as a hypocritical Christian, or a destructive element to Jewish heritage. It's not about theology, it's about how you live. Maybe if more Christians understood that, they would understand the sacrifice they are asking Jews to make when they try to "help" them.
It's like being a wealthy miser in a stoic religion, it just doesn't work.
If you want to know what I believe, then ask me. If you want to tell me why what you believe that I believe is wrong. By all means, tell me what I believe, then tell me why it's wrong. You may be surprised when I agree with you!
To Xinglu: I am sorry about the way that my fellow brothers treated you. I will not argue with you over the details of why I am different from them, and they are wrong, because in doing so, I would be guilty of doing exactly what they did. That is, to "teach you" the "True" meaning of Christianity, in order to "convert" you. So, I apologize for your offense, and it is an unfortunate, but unavoidable side-effect of Christianity. If any more keep bugging you, you can tell them I said to back off!
:cheers:
I've spent over a year in a weekly Bible study at my house with JW's, though I haven't attended their church.
I studied for a year and a half with a non-religious Jew, who was volunteering to teach modern Hebrew to a bunch of Christians. He often tried to explain "Jewishness" to us, with respect on both sides.
My wife's family is Roman Catholic, and last month we had a fun discussion with her cousin on the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
A good friend of mine recently was baptised into the Eastern Orthodox Church. We've had many discussions about his "conversion."
I was baptised in a Church of Christ, Married in a Baptist Church, interned under a Reform church, and now am ordained in the Assemblies of God (Pentecostal.)
And even though I've known and studied with and respected these people who all came from different backgrounds and faiths. There is only one thing that I would be comfortable in speaking on their behalf, and surprisingly, it is the same thing for all of them:
"Please don't try to explain to me what I believe!"
Telling a Jew what Jews believe based on a website. (Any website) is insulting. If the Jewish culture could be explained that easily, then why bother with actually studying the Talmud? Let's just look this all up on Wikipedia, and be done with it! [/sarcasm]
Telling me what I believe as a Christian, let alone what branch I must fall into, or what I qualify for, or what my goals are, based on a few bad examples is equally insulting.
Saying things like "Christians want to convert everybody." Is an extremely loaded statement. There are many, many different interpretations as to what that means. What it means to me is probably different than what it means to many other Christians. Obviously there's issues with free will and God's will there. Since God gave free will (also a loaded statement) we have to respect that. Yet it also says that God does not will that any should perish.
Saying "X-brand church is not Christian" is also extremely loaded. Do you mean "Not going to heaven?" or do you mean "Not only saved through faith in Jesus' death on the cross?" or do you mean "Forgiven through Jesus' death, but now accountable for your actions?" Or do you mean "Ascribes to the Nicene Creed?" Or the "Athanasian Creed?" Or do you mean "their doctrine doesn't represent mine, so I won't defend it?" Or do you mean "X church has chosen to separate themselves from a body of 'Christian' churches, and call themeselves the 'Only true Christian Church?'"
RC's and Protestants, and Eastern Orthodox (That I know) hold to the Nicene Creed. JW's that I know do not. Some Mormons do, and some don't, depending on how they interpret it. Obviously, Jew's don't!
As far as being "Jewish" -- the question that keeps getting asked over and over again: "Why can't you be Jewish and a Christian?" has been answered more by the actions and responses, than by any specific argument. Look back over the thread as a whole and you will see it by example.
Christians, if they are willing to believe the message of Jesus, are compelled to share their beliefs with those who are interested. (Jesus made it clear several times that those who weren't interested were to be left alone.) Jesus commanded "Go, make disciples of all nations."
Part of the core of Jewish culture is to specifically not do that. (As was stated several times, and quite clearly, by Tez and Canuck.)
Therefore, if a Jew follows the teachings of Jesus and Paul/Saul, then he/she will be acting in opposition to the heritage of Jewish culture. So, you cannot be living a "Christian" life in harmony with the "Jewish" life. You would end up as a hypocritical Christian, or a destructive element to Jewish heritage. It's not about theology, it's about how you live. Maybe if more Christians understood that, they would understand the sacrifice they are asking Jews to make when they try to "help" them.
It's like being a wealthy miser in a stoic religion, it just doesn't work.
If you want to know what I believe, then ask me. If you want to tell me why what you believe that I believe is wrong. By all means, tell me what I believe, then tell me why it's wrong. You may be surprised when I agree with you!
To Xinglu: I am sorry about the way that my fellow brothers treated you. I will not argue with you over the details of why I am different from them, and they are wrong, because in doing so, I would be guilty of doing exactly what they did. That is, to "teach you" the "True" meaning of Christianity, in order to "convert" you. So, I apologize for your offense, and it is an unfortunate, but unavoidable side-effect of Christianity. If any more keep bugging you, you can tell them I said to back off!
:cheers:
thardey
Master Black Belt
^^
Wow, that looks a lot longer than I thought now that it's posted.
Wow, that looks a lot longer than I thought now that it's posted.
No matter, its all excellent stuff. Thardey, I knew you were a devout Christian, but I did not know you were ordained. :asian:
OP
- Thread Starter
- #234
but it's a fine post! Thank you!
thardey
Master Black Belt
Haha, yeah, what you guys didn't know is how often I use these MT discussions for inspiration for sermons!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #237
Do you have cake after your services? We do, seriously we do....and wine or a nice cuppa!
One of the things we do at my synagogue and a few others I know is audition rabbis when we want a new one (we employ them), it must be quite awful really giving a sermon knowing everyone is judging every word. They often don't know whether to make us laugh, make us feel guilty, entertain or educate us. A good sermon though is a pleasure.
When I was in the RAF many years ago there was a Welsh padre who always had a packed 'house', he was a wonderful speaker, he sounded like Richard Burton and he had the lyrical voice only the Welsh have. Aaah, there's beautiful it was, real tidy like.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #239
Here's a question! Why do people go to church/shul/mosques/temples/meeting places to worship in public?
I can't think of any religion though I expect there is one that isn't 'public'.
I can't think of any religion though I expect there is one that isn't 'public'.
Much depends on how many worshippers there are. In the early 1980s, there were no Sikh Gurdwaras (temples) in the greater Boston area, at all.
However, there were several Indo-American Sikhs that would host worship services in their homes, and there was a group of largely western Sikhs (mostly converted) that held worship services around the city, wherever they could find room. By 1990, one group had bought an old church and remodeled it in to a temple, the other group had built a small Ashram in a more remote community. Since then, there have been one or two other temples that have opened up.
Even with the physical buildings having been built, it is not uncommon for a Sikh to host a keertan service in their home. Its not required that the services be lead by a priest, it can be done by that meets a certain set of qualifications (knows the prayers, has made a formal commitment akin to a baptism, etc). However, once a community reaches a certain size, it is much easier to have a building as a central gathering place, and hire a priest to lead the services and provide spiritual support when people in the community needs someone to turn to.
Food is involved also
Each time a service is held, one family arranges to cook a full vegetarian meal for all attendees, regardless of their faith. One of the reasons why the meals are vegetarian is so the meals do not violate the rules of other religions. 
