Spin hook to scissor takedown?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Ivan, Jun 25, 2020.

  1. Ivan

    Ivan Green Belt

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    I have been munching on this possibility for a while, but due to lack of any sparring partners or mats, I haven't been able to try it out. But I was wondering if anyone here has ever attempted to transition from a back spin hook kick, to a scissor kick takedown?
    I would imagine all you have to do, is jump before the kick connects and plant your root leg behind your opponent's knees. Is this even physically possible?
     
  2. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    I can't say I've ever tried it, but just offhand it seems an extremely low percentage move.
     
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  3. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    I agree, pretty low percentage combination with a high risk of failure leaving you in a very compromised position.
    Back in the day I could break boards (2+2) with a scissors kick pretty good but it is definitely more for flash than application.
     
  4. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Sounds good for a movie....real life not so much
     
  5. skribs

    skribs Grandmaster

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    You should watch the movie undercover blues. For one, its hilarious.

    But theres a point where Kathleen Turner does a hook kick and her leg gets grabbed, so she transitions into a scissor sweep.

    It is a movie...but it can help you visualize the combo.
     
  6. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Skipping hook should be easier as you would be more likely to get them side on?

    We don't do that takedown due to the catastrophic damage it can cause if you mess it up.

     
  7. wab25

    wab25 Black Belt

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    Cung Lee uses similar combos pretty effectively.



    Maybe you could barrow some of his footwork and change the side kick to a hook kick? Or at least use a heavy bag the way he does for practicing your own combo.

    I never understood this. Judo seems to label this throw as very dangerous. As near as I can tell, its because someone got their ankle broken in competition. And that happened from a very poor attempt at the throw, done from too far away. The result is that everyone connected to Judo, shuns this throw... which means that they don't practice it and use it. Which means that they can not do it very well. Are we to ban every throw that injures someone when done wrong? In that case, seoi nage needs to be banned... as you slam the guys head into the ground when you mess that one up.

    Cung Lee is famous for using this throw, very effectively in full contact competition... without catastrophically damaging his opponent. I believe the Sambo guys are pretty effective with it too.
     
  8. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    It's actually very easy if it's taught and trained in the proper progression. Scissor take downs, any kind of scissor take downs, can be dangerous if you don't know what to look for. From simple scissors to head scissors to jump 360 scissors. Back in the point tournament days I used them a lot, always scoring with a follow up when they were down, or while they were going down.

    All my kids did scissor take downs.

    HeadScissorsKidsClass.jpg

    And in forty years of teaching them we had ZERO injuries, zip, zilch, nada, not a single one.

    One thing I stress, and it's a big deal - if you teach them, you have to teach the one doing the take down to cup the back of his partners head with the palm of his hand so the back of the head doesn't bang off the floor or mat.

    I can't do a head scissors any more, just don't have the spring now. But I was doing some scissors a month before this damn pandemic started. And it was just as much fun.
     
  9. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't want my knee torched in training. But you go right ahead.
     
  10. wab25

    wab25 Black Belt

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    Curious... How many times have you seen people tear up their knee with a scissor take down?

    I have seen Tori tear up his knee doing tai otoshi, because uke landed on his knee, and he did not point the knee down a few times.

    I have seen Uke tear up their knee with o soto gari because they either locked their leg to prevent the throw or because their foot got stuck to the mat.

    I have seen seoi nage plant people on their heads and shoulders.

    I have never seen someone tear up their knee with a scissor throw. I have seen more people get their knee torn up from heel hooks.

    We practice all these other "safe" throws and techniques... even though we see many injuries with them... but ban the scissor take down. I know the Judo guys are pretty serious about that throw being dangerous... but the data I have seen does not support that. Perhaps you have seen other data. If so, I would like to see it. I don't have Buka's 40 years of experience... but I have 25... and that technique is not one of the ones causing lots of injuries... or any injuries, except to ego.
     
  11. Christopher Adamchek

    Christopher Adamchek Blue Belt

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    Ive done a spinning hook kick to scissor takedown
    the set up is key to range, time, and telegraph so that they want to catch your leg and sweep you but then you do the scissor takedown
     
  12. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Once......123
     

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