So what's a better "test" for martial arts other than MMA?

[Headhunter]

So you have a better test?

I love how people avoid a topic they cant answer.

Not avoiding it because as has been stated mma is a test for mma fighters why would a karate guy or a kickboxer or a boxer do mma since that's not what they're training for. The guys who fight mma funnily enough train in mma gyms believe it or not. Mma isn't a test for other styles because its not even in Their thoughts if they wanted to do it they'd go to an mma gym. That's the truth about it. You and hanzou both seem to think everyone has to step into a cage to be happy with their abilities yet hanzou tells me he's never done so. What about you? You stepped in the cage have you tested yourself or are you contradicting yourself as well

 

[Buka]

And the bait was taken, devoured even.

You're gonna' need a bigger thread.

 

[Hanzou]

the question wasnt have you been around mma fighters I wasn't asking where you coach. An "informal" fight is nothing but sparring. Not a noteworthy event what so none of your friends or family bothered to film it.

So you're injured, to old, you cross train and have no evidence to back it up because its not a big thing. Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me.

I guess you're not testing your abilities so you don't know if what you're doing works because all your doing is sparring you're not fighting mma fights which according to you is the be all and end all.

None of that blabbering above has anything to do with the topic. The topic is based purely on styles and training methodology. There are styles that do well in MMA and styles that are nonexistent in MMA. So my question is why are some systems prevalent, while others are nonexistent?

Not avoiding it because as has been stated mma is a test for mma fighters why would a karate guy or a kickboxer or a boxer do mma since that's not what they're training for.

There are Karate, Kickboxer, and Boxing guys who do MMA.

The guys who fight mma funnily enough train in mma gyms believe it or not. Mma isn't a test for other styles because its not even in Their thoughts if they wanted to do it they'd go to an mma gym. That's the truth about it.

Except many traditionalists have, and have had to completely abandon their style in order to stand a chance. Alan Orr and his style of Wing Chun being a prime example. The question is why does that happen? The other question is if MMA isn't a good test for a style's effectiveness, what's a better one?

 

[Hanzou]

Modern Chinese martial dancing.

Yes, that would definitely be one of them.

Sharif Bey's Hung Gar would be another.

 

[oaktree]

"MMA isn't a good test for a style's effectiveness, what's a better one?"

Effective at what is the question.
Most students in China and Japan study martial arts not to learn fighting but as a hobby or for discipline. Most elderly people find their way into martial arts for health and relaxation(especially in taiji case)

In my opinion it's not the art that isn't effective it's the person who knows how to use it effectively to his advantage.
What differs a lot from effective and ineffective is the mindset, so in 3 categories that would be the hobbyist, the sport, and the killer. The hobbyist has no intention to fight that is your old lady, your kids, hippie. The sport is someone who competes and finds that since they are "fighting" they are more effective which they are compared to the hobbyist. Then there is the killer, the military, the criminal, the police the person who trains to kill if need be, and needs something that deals with the reality of the other person trying to kill you which life or death fighting can not be replicated in a cage, the air is different. Having someone with a knife trying to stab you in a dark alley for crack money is a different feel than fighting someone who wants to win a competition.

 

[drop bear]

And the bait was taken, devoured even.

You're gonna' need a bigger thread.

It still asstounds me that nobody even attempts to answer the question.

I was expecting all sorts of cool ideas. I dont know. Mc Map style gauntlets. Chess boxing mabye.Animal day perhaps.

 

[drop bear]

Not avoiding it because as has been stated mma is a test for mma fighters why would a karate guy or a kickboxer or a boxer do mma since that's not what they're training for. The guys who fight mma funnily enough train in mma gyms believe it or not. Mma isn't a test for other styles because its not even in Their thoughts if they wanted to do it they'd go to an mma gym. That's the truth about it. You and hanzou both seem to think everyone has to step into a cage to be happy with their abilities yet hanzou tells me he's never done so. What about you? You stepped in the cage have you tested yourself or are you contradicting yourself as well

So karate kickboxing or boxing is also a reasonable test for martial arts?

 

[Kickboxer101]

So karate kickboxing or boxing is also a reasonable test for martial arts?

Karate competitions are a good test for karate guys, kickboxing matches are good for kickboxers and boxing matches are good for boxers and mma matches are good for mma fighters I have no idea why this is so confusing to some people

 

[Kickboxer101]

None of that blabbering above has anything to do with the topic. The topic is based purely on styles and training methodology. There are styles that do well in MMA and styles that are nonexistent in MMA. So my question is why are some systems prevalent, while others are nonexistent?



There are Karate, Kickboxer, and Boxing guys who do MMA.



Except many traditionalists have, and have had to completely abandon their style in order to stand a chance. Alan Orr and his style of Wing Chun being a prime example. The question is why does that happen? The other question is if MMA isn't a good test for a style's effectiveness, what's a better one?

So now you're contradicting yourself before you said no karate guys would dare do mma but now you've said karate people do do mma and no there's plenty who use their traditional background. Best example Stephen Thompson his style is karate and rogan has said almost every fight that he uses a point karate based style. But there's really no point in telling you anything you're so closed minded you'll never listen to anything including facts

 

[Steve]

Why you are training and what your goals are will dictate how best to test for results.

If you're training to be a boxer, boxing matches will be a better test for you than MMA. If you train for health and wellbeing, the tests will be very different. If you're doing Wushu with the end goal of being able to perform like the guys in the video posted earlier, MMA isn't going to be very informative. Testing for results is pretty easy if the goals of the training are well defined.

Conversely, if the results are not well defined, as is the case with "self defense," then it seems reasonable that the best test is every test. Well, maybe not "every" test, but many tests so that you are gauging aspects of the skills you are developing. Competition will tell you a lot about your relative skill level in combat, but doesn't help you with knives.

The point I'm trying to make is that, if your goal is self defense, I would think that you're best served by seeking out pretty much any kind of test you can think of. The more the better.

 

[Steve]

So now you're contradicting yourself before you said no karate guys would dare do mma but now you've said karate people do do mma and no there's plenty who use their traditional background. Best example Stephen Thompson his style is karate and rogan has said almost every fight that he uses a point karate based style. But there's really no point in telling you anything you're so closed minded you'll never listen to anything including facts

My personal opinion is that karate guys who compete are going to have an advantage over those who do not.

An Aikidoka who competes will have a real advantage over those who do not. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Wing Chun succeed in MMA. But it would take a person willing to fail a lot in order to see it. That's one of the things competition helps you with.

 

[Hanzou]

So now you're contradicting yourself before you said no karate guys would dare do mma but now you've said karate people do do mma and no there's plenty who use their traditional background

Where did I say that? There's a variety of karate styles out there. Kyokushin is definitely prevalent in MMA, and Loyoto Machida is famous for his karate style in MMA. There are some more traditional Karate systems that would never set foot in a cage and those se the ones I was referring to earlier.

But there's really no point in telling you anything you're so closed minded you'll never listen to anything including facts

 

[Hanzou]

My personal opinion is that karate guys who compete are going to have an advantage over those who do not.

An Aikidoka who competes will have a real advantage over those who do not. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Wing Chun succeed in MMA. But it would take a person willing to fail a lot in order to see it. That's one of the things competition helps you with.

What I find interesting is that there are Wing Chun experts who say that WC isnt compatible with MMA for a host of reasons (excuses);

 

[BigMotor]

I think the ability to defend oneself in a brawl is the real test of effectiveness right there, as for "the streets" a lot of people carry guns these days.

I concur, the acid test is being able to defend, when attacked. And yes. a lot of people carry guns, and that is a big equalizer against any attack by multiple assailants.
They defend effectively against being attacked by someone in a car, or with dogs too.

Society has devolved into savagery in some ways, and I keep that in mind on an everyday basis.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I keep hearing that MMA isn't the best test for the effectiveness of MA styles. So what's a better test outside of putting on a costume and becoming a vigilante with a death wish? Just curious.

And btw, there's varying rulesets for MMA, so if you feel that some of the UFC rules are restrictive, there are other fight circuits where they have even less rules.

That is the fallacy in your OP question, there are rules that each individual has to abide by in order to compete. Let's break that down; there are rules so you can only compare MA that abide by those rules. Individuals: there are only two, unarmed opponents rather than the possibility of multiple attackers who could be armed. And finally...compete; it's a game.

So MMA is not the best thing to determine effectiveness unless it is a comparison of ONLY those MA's that fall into those narrow parameters.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I'm going to say one more thing about this which I'm sure the op will have an arguments to but the fact is an mma fight is not like a street fight for the simple fact that in a mma or only sport combat fight they circle each other throwing jabs and leg kicks trying to gage the distance and find range, sometimes a fight will start and it'll take a few minutes for anyone to even throw a punch and no fight will ever be full 15 minutes of throwing non stop punches but in a real fight there's no circling or looking for openings and just moving around the one attacking will be moving in full force throwing as many punches as he can as quick as he can and he won't stop or move back to get out the way. That's the biggest difference. In a combat fight the opponent is trying to get in and take as little damage as possible and get out whereas if someone's trying to take your wallet they're just throwing caution to the wind and going in guns blazing trying to take you out and not thinking about preserving themselves so their not to beat up so the doctor stops the fight or they're to tired for the next round. Those are ring fighter considerations but not street fighters

 

[Buka]

It still asstounds me that nobody even attempts to answer the question.

I was expecting all sorts of cool ideas. I dont know. Mc Map style gauntlets. Chess boxing mabye.Animal day perhaps.

Not really sure why you're quoting me, bro, I'm a supporter of all things MMA. Especially the training.

I know it's not for everybody, but what is? But I just love it. (what's "animal day", though)

 

[Hanzou]

That is the fallacy in your OP question, there are rules that each individual has to abide by in order to compete. Let's break that down; there are rules so you can only compare MA that abide by those rules. Individuals: there are only two, unarmed opponents rather than the possibility of multiple attackers who could be armed. And finally...compete; it's a game.

So MMA is not the best thing to determine effectiveness unless it is a comparison of ONLY those MA's that fall into those narrow parameters.

I disagree. MMA rules (and the rules of various MMA-friendly styles) are in place to ensure the safety of the fighters, and to maximize certain techniques that can be performed over and over again in order to gain mastery of those techniques and use them on a multitude of opponents.

For example, you can't practice eye gouging, groin striking, or biting to a level of mastery, but you can practice a triangle choke, a knee bar, a clinch, or an uppercut to a level of mastery against a variety of opponents without seriously injuring or killing yourself or your opponent.

Jigoro Kano proved this training methodology to be very effective against more traditional methodologies at various points in the 1800s. His methodology was proven again in the first UFCs in the 1990s. Training under "rules" or safety conditions simply leads to better martial artists.

 

[oaktree]

And it is the rules and gentlemen agreement that prevent it from resembling what a life and death encounter occurs.
Interesting you mention Kano as other schools were doing what he was doing in fact his classical style is where he originally learned it from.

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When I first saw the UFC I did not think it was realistic and put it in the same category as TV wrestling or roller Derby, no realism is people going to war, cops facing a knife wielding maniac on PCP, or the mugger, or the serial killer. The argument that MMA is real is silly and maybe it is for the group of demographic male 15 to 30 crowd who think so. Good luck in your training

 

[Kong Soo Do]

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