So what's a better "test" for martial arts other than MMA?

[Ironbear24]

Okay let me ask you this if according to you mma is the ultimate test to see how good your skills are and that's the only way to show it then tell me what's your mma record? Let's see a video of your fights? Or have you never fought an mma fight? If that's the case then you're simply contradicting yourself and if you say oh yeah I spar or I roll well cool but that's not fighting mma is it. Every martial art club spars so if all you do is spar you're no better than anyone else who spars in their gym.

It's actually funny how much of a fanboy you are

I agree with some things here, aside from the last statement, maybe he is just being honest with the forum about his opinion? There isn't anything wrong with that. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean they should be labeled something negative.

Anyway I do agree with the fight record comment and every other statement. We all have some form of resistance training that we do whether it be drills or whatever variety of sparring. There was only one place I seen that didn't spar ever and I did not stay there.

 

[hoshin1600]

Yes. They want their children to be able to handle themselves if someone pushes them around. The discipline aspect is secondary, and frankly you can learn that aspect in just about every sport out there. The kids want to be able to do amazing kicks and moves that their favorite super hero does. The idea that most people aren't in the MARTIAL arts for fighting is simply nonsense.

I think you are mistaken. Do you have children? My son likes ninja turtles so yes he likes to kick and punch. I send him to a karate class because I want him to learn to focus. He is learning from a traditional guy and I have no illusion that he is learning to defend himself. That is not even on my radar at this point. When he needs to learn to fight I will address that as his parent.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Yes. They want their children to be able to handle themselves if someone pushes them around. The discipline aspect is secondary, and frankly you can learn that aspect in just about every sport out there. The kids want to be able to do amazing kicks and moves that their favorite super hero does. The idea that most people aren't in the MARTIAL arts for fighting is simply nonsense.

You just said it yourself the kids want to do punches and kicks like superheroes not actually to fight. They want to throw the cool kicks and punches which they can do without fighting I doubt there are many 5-10 year olds who train for the specific reason of fighting someone and parents want their kids to learn how to control themselves and how to use situational awareness to walk away from trouble they don't their 7 year old breaking another kids jaw and putting him in hospital

 

[Kickboxer101]

I agree with some things here, aside from the last statement, maybe he is just being honest with the forum about his opinion? There isn't anything wrong with that. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean they should be labeled something negative.

Anyway I do agree with the fight record comment and every other statement. We all have some form of resistance training that we do whether it be drills or whatever variety of sparring. There was only one place I seen that didn't spar ever and I did not stay there.

Don't really think you can call headhunter out on calling him a fanboy when you did the exact same thing only yesterday lol

Are you a Kenpo karate teacher? I think I am going to obey what my sifu told me about the reasoning behind such drills over some biased bjj fanboy on the internet.

 

[Ironbear24]

Don't really think you can call headhunter out on calling him a fanboy when you did the exact same thing only yesterday lol

That was said to Hanzou who objectively is a fan boy for bjj. I doubt this individual is an mma fan boy but hey if he is I'll stand corrected.

 

[drop bear]

Well, if someone is training for aesthetic reasons, forms tests are a better evaluation.

If we are talking combat effectiveness, there are tests that are reasonable, which are more suitable for folks who don't want to beat people up. I've discussed some of them elsewhere (hard sparring, simulated attacks, etc.). There was a time when I was fit enough to have competed in something like MMA if I wanted to. I could have trained up the skills needed and would have probably done competently well. I wouldn't have been great, but I'd have managed okay if I'd put in enough hours. But I'd have had to go in and do my best to beat up someone who hadn't done anything to deserve it. I've just never been interested in that, so I never went that route. Something like BJJ probably would have suited me well back then if I'd run into it. Now? My joints suck, so there's no way I want to get into submission contests. I enjoy rolling, because I can just tap out the moment there's a good lock and any level of discomfort. That approach doesn't' work for competition.

So why do these tests create better martial artists than MMA?

 

[drop bear]

Okay let me ask you this if according to you mma is the ultimate test to see how good your skills are and that's the only way to show it then tell me what's your mma record? Let's see a video of your fights? Or have you never fought an mma fight? If that's the case then you're simply contradicting yourself and if you say oh yeah I spar or I roll well cool but that's not fighting mma is it. Every martial art club spars so if all you do is spar you're no better than anyone else who spars in their gym.

It's actually funny how much of a fanboy you are

So you have a better test?

I love how people avoid a topic they cant answer.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So why do these tests create better martial artists than MMA?

You're back to "better". I never said that about them.

 

[drop bear]

You're back to "better". I never said that about them.

Ok. so no better test then.

Cool we are 4 pages in and we have no solutions.

 

[Ironbear24]

Ok. so no better test then.

Cool we are 4 pages in and we have no solutions.

And you won't, these things are very opinion based.

Personally I think it all comes down to heavy contact sparring for the best "test" MMA or not you can do that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok. so no better test then.

Cool we are 4 pages in and we have no solutions.

As I said, that's where I started. I don't think there is a single solution to this - it's all relative.

 

[Hanzou]

Okay let me ask you this if according to you mma is the ultimate test to see how good your skills are and that's the only way to show it then tell me what's your mma record? Let's see a video of your fights? Or have you never fought an mma fight? If that's the case then you're simply contradicting yourself and if you say oh yeah I spar or I roll well cool but that's not fighting mma is it. Every martial art club spars so if all you do is spar you're no better than anyone else who spars in their gym.

It's actually funny how much of a fanboy you are

I consistently cross-train at a MMA gym, and I'm the assistant grappling coach (well was) at said gym. So yeah, I've been around MMA fighters on a fairly consistent basis.

I have fought MMA fights. Not professionally (I'm a bit too old for that), but informally.

I'm afraid you won't be seeing a video of me fighting a MMA fight anytime soon. For starters, a Bjj guy fighting in MMA isn't a noteworthy event, and secondly I have a long running injury that would prevent me from participating in one anyway.

Now, on the other hand someone coming from a more traditional system (ala Kung Fu, JJJ, etc.) fighting in even an amateur MMA fight would be a far more noteworthy event. However, people have told me that traditional arts are a poor fit for MMA. I'm struggling to find the reason why.

I'm still waiting for that one poster who told me it's the rules that favor sport fighters over traditional MA to tell me exactly what rule is making it impossible for TMA practitioners to compete.

 

[Hanzou]

I think you are mistaken. Do you have children?

Yes, two.

My son likes ninja turtles so yes he likes to kick and punch. I send him to a karate class because I want him to learn to focus. He is learning from a traditional guy and I have no illusion that he is learning to defend himself. That is not even on my radar at this point. When he needs to learn to fight I will address that as his parent.

Again, I find it quite odd that we're arguing whether someone learning a MARTIAL art is learning to fight or not. What do you think your son is learning? He's learning fighting stances, how to properly kick and punch, how to block blows and counter-attack, etc. What do you think the purpose behind all of that training is?

 

[Hanzou]

You just said it yourself the kids want to do punches and kicks like superheroes not actually to fight. They want to throw the cool kicks and punches which they can do without fighting I doubt there are many 5-10 year olds who train for the specific reason of fighting someone and parents want their kids to learn how to control themselves and how to use situational awareness to walk away from trouble they don't their 7 year old breaking another kids jaw and putting him in hospital

Why exactly would I pay a martial art school to teach my kids to walk away from a bully or how to "control themselves"? I can teach him that for free.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes, two.



Again, I find it quite odd that we're arguing whether someone learning a MARTIAL art is learning to fight or not. What do you think your son is learning? He's learning fighting stances, how to properly kick and punch, how to block blows and counter-attack, etc. What do you think the purpose behind all of that training is?

Not all things you and I would call martial arts are focused on training fighting skills, though that's where they all started. There are entire groups of martial arts that are almost entirely focused on internal development, rather than fighting skill.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Why exactly would I pay a martial art school to teach my kids to walk away from a bully or how to "control themselves"? I can teach him that for free.

Not all parents can, or possibly will. Some people do send their kids to anti-bullying classes. That's why many commercial dojos offer that kind of class.

 

[Hanzou]

Not all things you and I would call martial arts are focused on training fighting skills, though that's where they all started. There are entire groups of martial arts that are almost entirely focused on internal development, rather than fighting skill.

Well that's fair. I've often said that there are styles that teach you how to fight, and there are styles that teach you how to pretend.

 

[Ironbear24]

Well that's fair. I've often said that there are styles that teach you how to fight, and there are styles that teach you how to pretend.

And what arts are these?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And what arts are these?

Modern Chinese martial dancing.

 

[Headhunter]

I consistently cross-train at a MMA gym, and I'm the assistant grappling coach (well was) at said gym. So yeah, I've been around MMA fighters on a fairly consistent basis.

I have fought MMA fights. Not professionally (I'm a bit too old for that), but informally.

I'm afraid you won't be seeing a video of me fighting a MMA fight anytime soon. For starters, a Bjj guy fighting in MMA isn't a noteworthy event, and secondly I have a long running injury that would prevent me from participating in one anyway.

Now, on the other hand someone coming from a more traditional system (ala Kung Fu, JJJ, etc.) fighting in even an amateur MMA fight would be a far more noteworthy event. However, people have told me that traditional arts are a poor fit for MMA. I'm struggling to find the reason why.

I'm still waiting for that one poster who told me it's the rules that favor sport fighters over traditional MA to tell me exactly what rule is making it impossible for TMA practitioners to compete.

the question wasnt have you been around mma fighters I wasn't asking where you coach. An "informal" fight is nothing but sparring. Not a noteworthy event what so none of your friends or family bothered to film it.

So you're injured, to old, you cross train and have no evidence to back it up because its not a big thing. Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me.

I guess you're not testing your abilities so you don't know if what you're doing works because all your doing is sparring you're not fighting mma fights which according to you is the be all and end all.