SKK form applications

[marlon]

Hello Marlon, which thread discusses principles of SK forms?

there is a thread called: skk form principles

 

[marlon]

Sec 4 - Attack is right front kick - Side lean away with #7 block then shuffle in and hit ceribelum with back fist.

I had this too but Matt has a much better application. the actual move above does not make much sense when you really break it down, for that attack it would be easier to shuffle away and do a #8 block and never turning your body. Matt does it off of some kindof arm or shoulder/lapel grab, step back draw person down and into your base then rifling them with the strike.

I like that application..after the lean if you trap the arm with the left hand then punch though under the trapped arm you can give some damage to the elbow joint

respectfully,
Marlon

 

[SK101]

thanks Jesse( the daddy). how different is GM Pesare's #1 from the villari version?

Respectfully,
Marlon

I like that part of kata 6 for defense against a left punch or back fist although I have to say that little crescent at the end doesn't make sense to me if it is a left punch. I suppose the right punch would work, but I don't see the shuto to the ribs controlling the left punch. The "Villari" version I like against a left shoulder grab. I did not know that section was an older version of DM 1. Always good to know.

 

[SK101]

Kata 6 Application -

Sec 1 - Dragon Breathes fire. Breathing Drill.

Sec 2 - 10 Point Blocking #10

Sec 3 - Repeat sec 1

Sec 4 - 10 Point Blocking #9

Sec 5 - Two attackers grabbing the throat from the side or just rushing in from the side - Double hammers to groins then stepping stool to 3rd attacker.

Sec 6 - I have no appl for this

Sec 7 - DM 26 - Self explanatory

Sec 8 - Attack is from behind while there is someone lying on the floor in front of you -

Jump over person on floor. Turn X Block low against front kick. Pull opponents heel to your chest so they fall on back. Scooping ball kick then heel kick to groin. Right axe to ribs. Turn 180* CCW. Left heel kick to groin then right snaking downward ball kick to solar plexus. Turn 180* CCW then right front punch to nose. Right side kick to head and land in horse stance.

Sec 9 - Attack is left punch or back fist - Block, grab, shuto to ribs, rev hawkdown, I don't use the little crescent if I do this appl.

Sec 10 - Attack is double wrist grab - #7&8 blocks used to escape grab, then front kick to solar plexus. I would step back with the right foot on this. GM DeMasco uses this technique from double forearm grab on the Century Self Defense video he has out. He uses an instep kick to the groin though.

Sec 11 - DM 19 - Self Explanatory.

Sec 12 - Attack is two persons at 45* angles. The X block above the head is the starting guard for a double attacker situation. If they come in mid to low level on the attack you can use 7&8 blocks. If they come in high you could use 1&2 knife hand blocks. Guy on your right side attacks first so you use a side kick to defend then the other attacker comes in with right or left kick so you use #8 block then front punch to solar plexus or spine depending on which side he kicks with.

Sec 13 - 10 Point Blocking # 9.

Sec 14 - Repeat of 12.

Sec 15 - DM #4 - Self Explanatory.

Sec 16 - Attack is left back fist. Block, grab, break.

Sec 17 - Rev 16.

 

[RevIV]

I like that part of kata 6 for defense against a left punch or back fist although I have to say that little crescent at the end doesn't make sense to me if it is a left punch. I suppose the right punch would work, but I don't see the shuto to the ribs controlling the left punch. The "Villari" version I like against a left shoulder grab. I did not know that section was an older version of DM 1. Always good to know.

I may be reading this wrong, but after the punch to the ground in 6 kata - I am blocking a right punch, and cross shuto to the neck followed up with a right tiger mouth then leg hock, as person is on the ground i kick them in the head then cross over and do the knuckle roll previously discussed. now jumping back a step I on the kick spin move which ends up with the kneeling punch, i have seen many versions but none with a hook kick. I will do 2 of my bunkais after and before i speak for SGM Pesares bunkai i will ask him in a few weeks.

 

[SK101]

I may be reading this wrong, but after the punch to the ground in 6 kata - I am blocking a right punch, and cross shuto to the neck followed up with a right tiger mouth then leg hock, as person is on the ground i kick them in the head then cross over and do the knuckle roll previously discussed. now jumping back a step I on the kick spin move which ends up with the kneeling punch, i have seen many versions but none with a hook kick. I will do 2 of my bunkais after and before i speak for SGM Pesares bunkai i will ask him in a few weeks.

If you are looking at that move as defense against right front punch I agree with the shuto to neck completly as that will control the left punch. I was originally taught the shuto as to the ribs, which to me makes sense if the attack was a left punch but not a right. I would also think another variation for the right punch could be to deliver the shuto to the opponents right kidney and maybe twisting their wrist to control that left punch. I don't think I said anything about a hook kick. I have a small crescent at the end of that application, but no hook.

 

[SK101]

Seeing as we are talking about the hawk down section. I was told hawk downs remove the throat. I.E. after the Tiger's mouth to esophagus you eagle's talon the wind pipe then pull back as the person falls to pull their throat out.

My guess is you would need some strong fingers and some understanding trainging partners to learn to do this.

 

[DavidCC]

What is Iron Butterfly?

In A Gadda Da Vida Baby

 

[DavidCC]

David all club techniques assume that the brick, club, etc. goes flying out of the attackers hand on the block.
...
We also assume they don't loose the weapon

Thanks, I ahve been wantign to get some of Prof. I's stuff for a while. But do you really assume two opposites at the same time? Maybe I'm just not reading you clearly (not enough coffee yet).

 

[SK101]

Thanks, I ahve been wantign to get some of Prof. I's stuff for a while. But do you really assume two opposites at the same time? Maybe I'm just not reading you clearly (not enough coffee yet).

The technique has to work off both. If the person looses the weapon you continue as if you are sparring with someone without a weapon. If they maintain the weapon you control the limb holding the weapon at all costs. They can't loose the weapon and keep it at the same time, but since we can't guarantee that they do one or the other we use techniques that work off both scenarios.

O/H Club #1, #2 Step left and forward with X Block High. Redirect right arm into groin. If they are still holding the weapon you take it away with your left hand. If they drop it you double thrust punch to ribs and temple.

If they keep the weapon you are doing what we call O/H club 1 if they loose it you are doing O/H club 2.

O/H Club #3 on the other hand is done the same way irregardless of whether the club remains in there hand. Except you can't take the club away and hit them with it if they loose the club.

 

[RevIV]

On 6 Kata:

Almost all versions I've seen have a crescent - hook kick combination, I was taught and have always done a double sweep. RevIV, maybe you could provide GM Pesare's original intent?

Sorry, it was Mark L who wrote the Hook Kick.

 

[Mark L]

Sorry, it was Mark L who wrote the Hook Kick.

MY bad. As indicated earlier, we do a double sweep at that point in the form, no doubt due to our Kara-Ho influences. My crescent-hook (the "spinning" qualifier on the hook kick was implicit, again, my bad) statement was based on a clearly poor memory, having seen other versions at tournaments in the distant past.

 

[SK101]

Hon Suki Application - (However it is spelled) anyone have a translation for the name?

Salutation - 3 stages of increasing breathing getting ready for war.
Monk wakes up in the morning gathers chi, Sun Rises, Sun Sets, Moon Rises, Moon Sets, Monk Prays, Monk becomes humble, monk wakes up in the morning gathers chi, Monk harvests(Never cared for that name), Monk wakes up in the morning and develops chi, War(Hon Suki hand set)

Sec 1 Han Suki hands - Palm to 3rd eye, grab hair, pull into back punch, honsuki strike to temple, reverse hammer to groin, front punch to nose

Up to here I see Han Suki as a body mechanics drill. Learning to manipulate an opponent so they don't recover there balance. When you add in the back punch/front punch it seems like a speed drill. I would think after front punch to nose & back to solar plexus you should have a face shot not a groin shot. Just like STCrane I feel it is best used to practice speeding up the hands not as application. Anyone have an application on strikes 6&7 by chance?

Sec 2 -Rev sec 1

Sec 3 - Reminds me alot of the block punch in the Pinans/katas.

Sec 4 - Part of section 1, but low x block 1st to deal with front instep kick.

Sec 5 Attack is front instep kick then right punch -
X block low. Right #1 block with honsuki strike. Reverse hammer to groin. Front punch to nose.

Sec 6 & 7reathing drills and hand speed drills.

I'll pickup tommorrow where I am leaving off tommorrow.

 

[JTKenpo]

Did we want to cover Statue before Honsuki?

Statue, for me, has always been the harmony between balance and power.

The crane stance itself, for application purposes, I like for kick defenses. with linear kicks such as front kicks I use the parrying action of the knee chambering and turning to the side. As for roundhouse defense I use the knee turning into the kick creating a perpendicular able and striking the kick with my shin or knee. Yes that does hurt in the beginning but so does holding a horse stance for long periods of time.

 

[JTKenpo]

Statue of the crane applications:

simultaneous knife to phyltrum and spear to throat, knife hand arm also blocks punch in an upward block manner.

U-Punch, I believe this is the first form we see this strike. i have seen it used against a two hand attack such as a lapel grab or a front choke

 

[marlon]

I love Prof. I's application of trapping the arms and attacking with the knees from Statue. Does anyone do the chain punches down the centerline or all the the same target? Using the crescent kick for a takedown is another good application of this form. Althouhg, i find it a much more principles based form than application based. The circular to straight moves at the end are very good break

respectfully,
Marlon

 

[14 Kempo]

Statue of the crane applications:

simultaneous knife to phyltrum and spear to throat, knife hand arm also blocks punch in an upward block manner.

U-Punch, I believe this is the first form we see this strike. i have seen it used against a two hand attack such as a lapel grab or a front choke

I agree, the knifehand can be an upward block. This movement can also be a forearm strike lifting the chin to expose the throat for the spearhand, if the distance has been closed.

 

[RevIV]

I love Prof. I's application of trapping the arms and attacking with the knees from Statue. Does anyone do the chain punches down the centerline or all the the same target? Using the crescent kick for a takedown is another good application of this form. Althouhg, i find it a much more principles based form than application based. The circular to straight moves at the end are very good break

respectfully,
Marlon

If we are talking about the same thing, i am not a fan of the crescent kick take down.. Does not mold well if you do it the way it is done in the form.. With that said i do the crescent kick low, scooping the persons leg out from under them, turning direction and dropping them.. I got the technique from one of my Penkjat silat classes., they have sweet and subtle take downs.

 

[Jdokan]

What is Iron Butterfly?

Double palm strikes...resembles a butterflys wings..

 

[marlon]

If we are talking about the same thing, i am not a fan of the crescent kick take down.. Does not mold well if you do it the way it is done in the form.. With that said i do the crescent kick low, scooping the persons leg out from under them, turning direction and dropping them.. I got the technique from one of my Penkjat silat classes., they have sweet and subtle take downs.

Shihan teaches the traditional crescent kick tothe head but emphasizes what the kick can do to the armand the excellent takedown if you kick the knee. i like you application with the turn.

respectfully,
Marlon