Should "running" be part of your MA training?

[Steve]

I am not referring to me. I am referring to ancient warriors who used their skills on the battlefield when martial arts where "martial" and not sporting.

I am also referring to modern self protection instructor. Let us take purely as an example Lee Morrison (Urban Combatives), the swivel punch that he learnt from Charlie Nelson he has never practice that technique in a sports arena. He has used that technique in a live situation.

According to your statement that should not be possible, as "Sport is the only format that you can develop dependable MA skill." So either your statement is not correct or you are using the term sport differently to most people. I am trying to understand which it is?

Ancient warriors often engaged in sport, and in many warrior cultures, sports were an important part of developing the warrior spirit in youth. It's not like modern martial artists invented sport.

Just to clarify my own position on this. I think that sports and competition are the best, most accessible way to develop real skill for most people today. But I also don't think your false dichotomy is on point, either.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I am not referring to me. I am referring to ancient warriors who used their skills on the battlefield when martial arts where "martial" and not sporting.

I am also referring to modern self protection instructor. Let us take purely as an example Lee Morrison (Urban Combatives), the swivel punch that he learnt from Charlie Nelson he has never practice that technique in a sports arena. He has used that technique in a live situation.

According to your statement that should not be possible, as "Sport is the only format that you can develop dependable MA skill." So either your statement is not correct or you are using the term sport differently to most people. I am trying to understand which it is?

I read "Swivel punch" and my brain cut responded

People market the heck out of catch phrases for things that have been around for a long time. I'm pretty sure the "Swivel punch" is nothing new and more importantly it probably came out the way it did because of the limited space inside of an elevator, which influence how he needed to generate power. He even says as much that it just came out and it's not something he ever trained. Gotta love marketing.

 

[Paul_D]

Ancient warriors often engaged in sport

They did yes, it is indeed one way of developing dependable skills.

 

[Paul_D]

I'm pretty sure the "Swivel punch" is nothing new

I'm pretty sure of that too, but then I wasn't aware that anyone was claiming it was.

I don't think he's he's suggesting it just came out without ever being trained though, which is how you appear to have taken it. I think he means he didn't plan to use the technique, as it wouldn't normally be his first choice.

 

[drop bear]

They did yes, it is indeed one way of developing dependable skills.

So you are talking about even ancienter warriors?

 

[Steve]

They did yes, it is indeed one way of developing dependable skills.

The key though isn't whether sport is one way to develop skills. The key is that not doing skills is not one way to develop skills. Mlat people do not have a venue for applying skills iutside of sport.

 

[drop bear]

I am also referring to modern self protection instructor. Let us take purely as an example Lee Morrison (Urban Combatives), the swivel punch that he learnt from Charlie Nelson he has never practice that technique in a sports arena. He has used that technique in a live situation.

Charlie nelson.
this charlie nelson?
charlienelson

"This is how I came to learn a unique fighting method that no one else in the U.S. teaches.
This method is based on Mongolian wrestling techniques intended to maim or cripple. Combined with other methods that I studied through out the years, these techniques form a complete system. My method combines boxing, jiu-jitsu, karate, principles of Tai-Chi and Aikido, and dirty fighting."

Which is of course based on a sport.

mogolian rock is pretty cool by the way.

 

[Paul_D]

The key though isn't whether sport is one way to develop skills. The key is that not doing skills is not one way to develop skills. Mlat people do not have a venue for applying skills iutside of sport.

I agree with everything you are saying. But the OP said sport was the only way dependable skill's can be developed.

 

[Paul_D]

Which is of course based on a sport.

Yes, sport is indeed one way to develop dependable skills. No one is denying that.

 

[jobo]

Yes, sport is indeed one way to develop dependable skills. No one is denying that.

are you going to keep playing this silly game or put your cards on the table and suggest some non sports ways of testing you techniques' before your safety depends on it

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

But the OP said sport was the only way dependable skill's can be developed.

What's the other way?

 

[Paul_D]

are you going to .... put your cards on the table and suggest some non sports ways of testing you techniques' before your safety depends on it

Firstly, how are you defining sport?

 

[jobo]

Firstly, how are you defining sport?

an athletic activerty done for enjoyment and or physical betterment

competative sport, an athletic activerty done for enjoyment ,physical betterment and the joy of winning

professional sport an athletic activerty done primarily for money and the enjoyment of spectators who are prepared to pay

 

[Paul_D]

What's the other way?

First I need to understand how you are using the term sport. Which is why I asked you to clarify. To me sport means people competing against each for the entertainment of a crowd/audience. I may very well agree with what you said, but until I know exactly what you mean I can't agree or disagree (and then explain why I disagree, if indeed I do).

 

[Paul_D]

an athletic activerty done for enjoyment and or physical betterment

To me sport suggestions competition against others. Hence why I sought calcification. As you are defining it as an activity done for psychical betterment, then we would be in agreement.

 

[jobo]

To me sport suggestions competition against others. Hence why I sought calcification. As you are defining it as an activity done for psychical betterment, then we would be in agreement.

I modified my post to include a defintion of the competative element

 

[Paul_D]

I modified my post to include a defintion of the competative element

Which is fine.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

First I need to understand how you are using the term sport. Which is why I asked you to clarify. To me sport means people competing against each for the entertainment of a crowd/audience. I may very well agree with what you said, but until I know exactly what you mean I can't agree or disagree (and then explain why I disagree, if indeed I do).

Sport is a "game" that's set up between 2 persons to agree with a certain rule set.

For example,

Today, we can play a game. If the first 20 punches that you throw at me can hit my head, you win that round. Otherwise I win that round. We can try this for 15 rounds. Whoever wins more than 7 rounds will be the winner today. In this game, I can test my defense skill and you can test your offense skill.

Next day, we can play the same game again, or we can play a different game such as if I can take you down within 30 seconds, I win that round. Otherwise, you win that round. Again, try this for 15 rounds. Record the result and decide the winner for that day. In this game, I can test my offense skill and you can test your defense skill.

 

[Paul_D]

Sport is a "game" that's set up between 2 persons to agree with a certain rule set.

For example,

Today, we can play a game. If the first 20 punches that you throw at me can hit my head, you win that round. Otherwise I win that round. We can try this for 15 rounds. Whoever wins more than 7 rounds will be the winner today. In this game, I can test my defense skill and you can test your offense skill.

Next day, we can play the same game again, or we can play a different game such as if I can take you down within 30 seconds, I win that round. Otherwise, you win that round. Again, try this for 15 rounds. Record the result and decide the winner for that day. In this game, I can test my offense skill and you can test your defense skill.

So competing against someone in a "game" with an agreed set of rules, and a an agreed definition of "winner" is the only way to develop dependable martial skill?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So competing against someone in a "game" with an agreed set of rules, and a an agreed definition of "winner" is the only way to develop dependable martial skill?

If I can

- block 10,000 punches that my opponent throws at my head with "rhino guard", I will know that my "rhino guard" is good.
- take my opponent down by single leg 10,000 times, I will know that my "single leg" is good.

I truly don't know any other way to build up my self-confidence for my MA skill. May be you can tell me a different way that I can try.

Here is an example of my "rhino guard" game.