Karate_Guy_CR
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Shikomizue Kenjutsu school?
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Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hi,
I'm not aware of any schools that explicitly teach shikomizue within their syllabus itself, however a number of schools certainly included it within their teachings, typically as Kuden (oral tradition or teachings), or as henka (variation to standard techniques). Within the Ninjutsu-related organisations, this is seen in the Hanbojutsu (Sanshakubojutsu) kata of the Kukishinden Ryu, although the concept is rarely limited to just that application.
The other thing to realise is that shikomizue is a rather generic term simply meaning "prepared stick", implying any stick or staff weapon which has a concealed usage, "prepared" for use. This may be a sword blade, as in the classic Zatoichi form, but may be a short spear blade, a chain, spikes, or many other variants. With that in mind, the use and teaching of weapons such as Chigiriki within Kiraku Ryu and Araki Ryu could be considered a teaching of a version of a "prepared" stick.
Remember that shikomizue are just one small part of a larger collection of weaponry refered to as shikomibuki, or kakushibuki, which include shikomizue, shikomijo, shikomijutte, shikomisensu, shikomiyatate,shikomikiserru, shikomichochin, shikomigatana, and many many more. And many "samurai" systems would certainly recognise the usefullness of such devices, and teach them accordingly.
So while the application was most likely used by many systems (kenjutsu and others), there was most likely no actual shikomizue ryu itself. It is really an application of the skills that would be taught, not a weapon system itself.
I'm not aware of any schools that explicitly teach shikomizue within their syllabus itself, however a number of schools certainly included it within their teachings, typically as Kuden (oral tradition or teachings), or as henka (variation to standard techniques). Within the Ninjutsu-related organisations, this is seen in the Hanbojutsu (Sanshakubojutsu) kata of the Kukishinden Ryu, although the concept is rarely limited to just that application.
The other thing to realise is that shikomizue is a rather generic term simply meaning "prepared stick", implying any stick or staff weapon which has a concealed usage, "prepared" for use. This may be a sword blade, as in the classic Zatoichi form, but may be a short spear blade, a chain, spikes, or many other variants. With that in mind, the use and teaching of weapons such as Chigiriki within Kiraku Ryu and Araki Ryu could be considered a teaching of a version of a "prepared" stick.
Remember that shikomizue are just one small part of a larger collection of weaponry refered to as shikomibuki, or kakushibuki, which include shikomizue, shikomijo, shikomijutte, shikomisensu, shikomiyatate,shikomikiserru, shikomichochin, shikomigatana, and many many more. And many "samurai" systems would certainly recognise the usefullness of such devices, and teach them accordingly.
So while the application was most likely used by many systems (kenjutsu and others), there was most likely no actual shikomizue ryu itself. It is really an application of the skills that would be taught, not a weapon system itself.
OP
Karate_Guy_CR
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thank you SO much Chris, that was highly informative :asian:
i had little to no knowledge of the terminology, nor about the inclusion of shikomizue techniques in other systems, you have certainly helped me alot!
if i may ask, do you know of any Kenjutsu or Iaido style that includes shikomizue in their teachings? i've wanted to learn the ways of Zatoichi for years now
i had little to no knowledge of the terminology, nor about the inclusion of shikomizue techniques in other systems, you have certainly helped me alot!
if i may ask, do you know of any Kenjutsu or Iaido style that includes shikomizue in their teachings? i've wanted to learn the ways of Zatoichi for years now
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Well, in a word, no.
Shikomizue is best thought of as a particular application of some systems, rather than a certain skill set itself. When it comes to Zatoichi, well, you're essentially looking at a reverse grip approach to sword, and that itself is a very rare thing to find as a classical area of study (in fact, I've never seen it... doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just that I've never seen it). Let's look at why...
If we are looking at the Japanese sword, without going too much into it's history and development, the Japanese sword (katana) was designed to be used with two hands (early tachi were lighter, and designed to be used one-handed on horseback, but that will still remove the use we'll discuss in a moment). Earlier in their history, the length of the sword was not regulated, so it could be as long as you wanted. Regulations came in during the Tokugawa Shogunate (17th Century onwards), standardising the length of regular katana to 2 shaku 3 sun, refered to as josun or teisun (roughly 70cm). A very few schools who used the longer blades managed to continue to teach the longer blades in secret, such as the Kage Ryu (which is honestly just an excuse to post this link...
), but the majority moved to the shorter blades.
As most sword systems were designed to use these weapons with two hands, especially if you are looking at an old armour based system, the use of the sword in a reverse grip would be rather unlikely. So if it was to come about, it would need to be a more "street" style, rather than battlefield (before anyone asks, by "street" here, I am simply refering to using shorter blades when not wearing armour, again circa Tokugawa Shogunate). In fact, the only "reverse grip" sword techniques I have come across are "specialty" iai techniques from systems such as Togakure Ryu, and Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu. Within the Ninjutsu-related systems, Shikomizue is taught as a variation to the Hanbojutsu (three foot staff, or half staff).
So we have a weapon designed to get it's power from the use of both hands, and uses the advantage of it's length. To use it reverse grip removes both of these advatanges of the weapon (although it does give it a little more maneouvrability in close quarters), so it won't be a major aspect of any system. The history of the weapon also points away from such uses. With Zatoichi, you really must remember that the use of Shikomizue and the reverse grip approach is primarily a theatrical device to seperate him from the "bad guys" and other swordsmen who he is depicted with.
Shikomizue is best thought of as a particular application of some systems, rather than a certain skill set itself. When it comes to Zatoichi, well, you're essentially looking at a reverse grip approach to sword, and that itself is a very rare thing to find as a classical area of study (in fact, I've never seen it... doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just that I've never seen it). Let's look at why...
If we are looking at the Japanese sword, without going too much into it's history and development, the Japanese sword (katana) was designed to be used with two hands (early tachi were lighter, and designed to be used one-handed on horseback, but that will still remove the use we'll discuss in a moment). Earlier in their history, the length of the sword was not regulated, so it could be as long as you wanted. Regulations came in during the Tokugawa Shogunate (17th Century onwards), standardising the length of regular katana to 2 shaku 3 sun, refered to as josun or teisun (roughly 70cm). A very few schools who used the longer blades managed to continue to teach the longer blades in secret, such as the Kage Ryu (which is honestly just an excuse to post this link...
As most sword systems were designed to use these weapons with two hands, especially if you are looking at an old armour based system, the use of the sword in a reverse grip would be rather unlikely. So if it was to come about, it would need to be a more "street" style, rather than battlefield (before anyone asks, by "street" here, I am simply refering to using shorter blades when not wearing armour, again circa Tokugawa Shogunate). In fact, the only "reverse grip" sword techniques I have come across are "specialty" iai techniques from systems such as Togakure Ryu, and Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu. Within the Ninjutsu-related systems, Shikomizue is taught as a variation to the Hanbojutsu (three foot staff, or half staff).
So we have a weapon designed to get it's power from the use of both hands, and uses the advantage of it's length. To use it reverse grip removes both of these advatanges of the weapon (although it does give it a little more maneouvrability in close quarters), so it won't be a major aspect of any system. The history of the weapon also points away from such uses. With Zatoichi, you really must remember that the use of Shikomizue and the reverse grip approach is primarily a theatrical device to seperate him from the "bad guys" and other swordsmen who he is depicted with.
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OP
Karate_Guy_CR
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Once again, thank you for your knowledgeable input :asian:
...guess i'll have to get lucky to find an Iaido or Kenjutsu school that carries on with the tradition of alternative/side techniques involving the shikomizue, still, i'm slightly dissapointed because of how "rare" the teaching of shikomizue techniques is.
...guess i'll have to get lucky to find an Iaido or Kenjutsu school that carries on with the tradition of alternative/side techniques involving the shikomizue, still, i'm slightly dissapointed because of how "rare" the teaching of shikomizue techniques is.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Maybe I wasn't quite clear enough.... You will not find one, it's really not a matter of luck. The closest you will find is a Ninjutsu-related school who incorporate the weapon into their syllabus. In Kenjutsu and Iai(jutsu or do) you simply won't find it taught at all.
The technique I refered to in Togakure Ryu is probably closest, as it is a drawing technique which ends with the sword in a reverse grip. The Katori Shinto Ryu technique (Gyaku Nuki no Tachi, in the Tachiai Battojutsu teachings) involves drawing your sword by gripping underneath the tsuka (handle), in a form of a reverse grip (which is where the name gyaku nuki [reverse draw] comes from), but with the blade edge up. It is then brought up to the left shoulder, and shifted into a standard grip. There are others in other systems, but they are again very rare.
The thing to realise with Japanese systems is that the Japanese value conformity, which means that all swordsmen are right handed, and the sword is held with the length out in front. Things such as shikomizue, shikomigatana, shikomijo etc, as well as reverse grip approaches, as so rare as to be not explicitly taught, particularly amongst the more mainstream systems (including, of course, Seitei Iaido, the standard form of Iaido). This basically means that there is no "tradition" of the alternative approach, but exploration once a fair degree of skill is attained is possible.
The technique I refered to in Togakure Ryu is probably closest, as it is a drawing technique which ends with the sword in a reverse grip. The Katori Shinto Ryu technique (Gyaku Nuki no Tachi, in the Tachiai Battojutsu teachings) involves drawing your sword by gripping underneath the tsuka (handle), in a form of a reverse grip (which is where the name gyaku nuki [reverse draw] comes from), but with the blade edge up. It is then brought up to the left shoulder, and shifted into a standard grip. There are others in other systems, but they are again very rare.
The thing to realise with Japanese systems is that the Japanese value conformity, which means that all swordsmen are right handed, and the sword is held with the length out in front. Things such as shikomizue, shikomigatana, shikomijo etc, as well as reverse grip approaches, as so rare as to be not explicitly taught, particularly amongst the more mainstream systems (including, of course, Seitei Iaido, the standard form of Iaido). This basically means that there is no "tradition" of the alternative approach, but exploration once a fair degree of skill is attained is possible.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
You must forgive me if this isn't the easiest read, my computer died and this is being typed on my computer PS3.
I've been thinking about this, and there is one alternative which may get close to what you're asking for, although it won't be easy to find, and even if you do manage to locate a teacher, there is no guarantee you'll be accepted for training. We're going real old school here...
The Tatsumi Ryu is a very old, highly revered sogo bujutsu system (composite martial system) focusing around the use of the sword. Amongst it's many other teachings, though, is a primarily unarmed jujutsu-like syllabus refered to as yawara. And within these yawara teachings is the use of an undrawn sword. The scabbarded sword is employed using various strikes and locks, allowing the practitioner to still be able to draw their sword as needed.
However, there are a few things you should be aware of... First of all is the fact that this is a fairly rare school, even in Japan, let alone outside of it, so it will be doubtful that there will be a teacher local to you. As well as that, this is a complex art with many facets, so you would be required to learn it all from the beginning (really a plus in my book, honestly), and the yawara teachings would be a fair way down the track. You couldn't just ask to only learn the one small aspect.
Tatsumi Ryu is what is classed as a koryu, or "old style", and like many other koryu they are rather selective as to who is invited to join. Koryu aren't for everyone, and it serves neither the ryu nor the student for the less suited people to be there.
I've been thinking about this, and there is one alternative which may get close to what you're asking for, although it won't be easy to find, and even if you do manage to locate a teacher, there is no guarantee you'll be accepted for training. We're going real old school here...
The Tatsumi Ryu is a very old, highly revered sogo bujutsu system (composite martial system) focusing around the use of the sword. Amongst it's many other teachings, though, is a primarily unarmed jujutsu-like syllabus refered to as yawara. And within these yawara teachings is the use of an undrawn sword. The scabbarded sword is employed using various strikes and locks, allowing the practitioner to still be able to draw their sword as needed.
However, there are a few things you should be aware of... First of all is the fact that this is a fairly rare school, even in Japan, let alone outside of it, so it will be doubtful that there will be a teacher local to you. As well as that, this is a complex art with many facets, so you would be required to learn it all from the beginning (really a plus in my book, honestly), and the yawara teachings would be a fair way down the track. You couldn't just ask to only learn the one small aspect.
Tatsumi Ryu is what is classed as a koryu, or "old style", and like many other koryu they are rather selective as to who is invited to join. Koryu aren't for everyone, and it serves neither the ryu nor the student for the less suited people to be there.
I think that Uchida ryu tanjo would be very good for learning the type of movement necssary for using shikomizue. It was devised during the early Meiji era, about the same time that shikomizue were prevalent due to the ban on carrying swords. It is the use of the western style walking cane which had become very popular in Japan at that time. Uchida ryu is most commonly found as a subsumed art within Shinto Muso ryu jodo.
Many examples of it can be found on the web.
Many examples of it can be found on the web.
Monadnock
2nd Black Belt
Paul,
Can you cite any examples of this being taught officially, outside of SMR?
I understand it is part of SMR, and maybe not taught until after the Chudan kata of Jo. (I could be mistaken on the timing, as it may vary between branches.)
Thanks,
Mike
Can you cite any examples of this being taught officially, outside of SMR?
I understand it is part of SMR, and maybe not taught until after the Chudan kata of Jo. (I could be mistaken on the timing, as it may vary between branches.)
Thanks,
Mike
Menkyo is given in Uchida ryu as well as SMR, as they are considered two separate arts. I don't know of anyone that has one that doesn't have the other, though I do know of several people that have rank in Uchida ryu but do not practice SMR jo.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
As I understand it, the Uchida Ryu was developed by Uchida Ryogoro, a Menkyo Kaiden of Shinto Muso Ryu, and is taught within the Shinto Muso Ryu as a result. It didn't exist outside of the SMR itself.
I'm honestly little surprised that there are any practitioners who are not members of the Shinto Muso Ryu. Were they at one point, and left afterwards? That said, I agree that it would be a good way to get a handle on the ideas (so to speak....).
I'm honestly little surprised that there are any practitioners who are not members of the Shinto Muso Ryu. Were they at one point, and left afterwards? That said, I agree that it would be a good way to get a handle on the ideas (so to speak....).
Hey Chris,
I agree with your statement on the development of Uchida ryu, and why it is taught within SMR. However, it is not considered to be part of the SMR curriculum, and separate rank is given in Uchida ryu and SMR jo. I know of at least one person with a hanshi license in both SMR and Uchida ryu that teaches Uchida ryu separately from SMR.
I agree with your statement on the development of Uchida ryu, and why it is taught within SMR. However, it is not considered to be part of the SMR curriculum, and separate rank is given in Uchida ryu and SMR jo. I know of at least one person with a hanshi license in both SMR and Uchida ryu that teaches Uchida ryu separately from SMR.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Ah, the licences in both makes sense. Cool. I've known of a number of instances where the Uchida Ryu is taught seperately (mainly seminars, or on a number of videos). I hadn't come across anyone teaching Uchida Ryu regularly as a completely seperate system before though.
