Self Defense Technique Design.....

[Kenpo Yahoo]

Then you'd have to move. HA HA HA
Anyways, I'm suggesting these techs don't need to be memorized and performed from ideal to ideal. In fact, they rarely are.

That's funny . I think what Billy is trying to point out is that a number of the techniques are essentially progressive stages of an attack. In Billys example you try for locked wing and the BADGUY blocks your left arm with his left hand, then you simply step out and execute Flight to Freedom. There are some that start from completely out of range, work through all the ranges all the way to the ground, and then have you finsh with a ground escape. It is important to understand these otherwise you just have a bunch of random techniques. If you don't know how the system works together than you are missing the heart of the system.

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo

That's funny . I think what Billy is trying to point out is that a number of the techniques are essentially progressive stages of an attack. In Billys example you try for locked wing and the BADGUY blocks your left arm with his left hand, then you simply step out and execute Flight to Freedom. There are some that start from completely out of range, work through all the ranges all the way to the ground, and then have you finsh with a ground escape. It is important to understand these otherwise you just have a bunch of random techniques. If you don't know how the system works together than you are missing the heart of the system.

THANK YOU! :asian:

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death

Then you'd have to move. HA HA HA
Anyways, I'm suggesting these techs don't need to be memorized and performed from ideal to ideal. In fact, they rarely are.

I'm sorry, then, that the majority of Kenpo practitoners out there are missing out.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Bill Lear
I'm sorry, then, that the majority of Kenpo practitoners out there are missing out.

The techs are merely study's of motion. Of course you benefit from practicing them to a catagory completion. However, Ed Parker merely drew on instances in fights he had personaly been in to then create and polish an official technique... not the other friggin way around. This Magic utopian warrior you claim you shall become once youv'e finaly internalized the very last technique is a pipe dream. Yes, thank God, you have versed yourself in the myriad of tactics that Kenpo has in store for you, but your fight is in the "now", the targets present themselves "now" and this is no time to wonder wheather or not you should finish "Sword of Destruction" with "Raking Mace" or maby finish with a "charging ram" idea now thet you have him bent over. Your goals will call for the tactics needed. While I suggest working your Family related moves catagories as groups and in groups. To acheive this "Heart Of Kenpo", you need not memorize the names of the techs within the catagory. Just train the catagory!!!!!!!
Ei yie yie.
:soapbox:
Sean

 

[Goldendragon7]

Time to take the garbage out!

Orig. posted by Touch'O'Death
The techs are merely study's of motion. Of course you benefit from practicing them to a category completion.
Sean

All good~!

Orig. posted by Touch'O'Death
Ed Parker merely drew on instances in fights he had personally been in to then create and polish an official technique...
Sean

While many of the technique had "realistic or actual street memories" that spawned their existence..... many were developed in the "studio" from several students experiences and the rest were inserted to complete the possibilities.

Orig. posted by Touch'O'Death
Your fight is in the "now", the targets present themselves "now".
Sean

Also a very true statement. However I think you misunderstand what Billy is stating... with his" Magic Utopian Warrior" that he shall become once he's finally internalized the very last technique. It is NOT a pipe dream but he would not need TIME to wonder whether or not he should finish "Sword of Destruction" with "Raking Mace" or may finish with a "charging ram it would just oozzzzz out of his bones extemporaneously due to his myriad of tactics that Kenpo taught him.

As you suggest just studying the Categories..... well that is a different road that also has benefits..... each to his own... both have merits as I see it.

The trash collector has left....

:asian: :rofl:

 

[Touch Of Death]

Billy the "oooz man" Lear. Kind of catchy....
Anyways I understand what he is saying, and I know you are a stickler for the art as laid out by Ed Parker; however, as you have stated the same result can be acheived through other means. Billy and his freinds Clyde and Robert, make no bones about suggesting they have the corner of the market. I simply disagree.
You are right, of course, Mr. Parker drew from others to complete "his" art. But many a world class fighter can do kenpo without ever having learned a single tech name.
Sean

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Billy the "oooz man" Lear. Kind of catchy....
Anyways I understand what he is saying, and I know you are a stickler for the art as laid out by Ed Parker; however, as you have stated the same result can be acheived through other means. Billy and his freinds Clyde and Robert, make no bones about suggesting they have the corner of the market. I simply disagree.
You are right, of course, Mr. Parker drew from others to complete "his" art. But many a world class fighter can do kenpo without ever having learned a single tech name.
Sean

I never said that doing someting else wouldn't work... I do that all the time. What I said was utilization of familiar movements is a more efficent way of dealing with "What Ifs" as they occour.

I don't claim to have a strangle hold on Kenpo either.

Sean,

You're way out in outter space brother...

And, don't call me "Ooze man" again! :shrug:

 

[dcence]

When you say this, are you referring to your opponents voluntary or involuntary reaction? I'm not saying wait for your opponent to react, I'm saying don't get ahead of what your strikes or manipulations are doing to your opponents body.

I am saying both.

What I am really saying is don't wait for any reaction, because the reaction you are waiting for may never come. Proceed with whatever he gives you. If the reaction you expect never comes, where are you? What I am saying is take the reaction he gives you at that time. Say you hit him in the groin and he hasn't bent forward yet like you expected. Do you wait for him to bend? What if he never does because you missed or he has gonads of steel, or he had them taken out because of a freak football injury. Regardless, if he hasn't moved, that is still a reaction you need to deal with, because he may not move like you expected him to.

You dictate the terms of engagement, don't wait to react to a reaction or you will always be the one that is a step behind. Take control and manipulate the whole way through (if you can).

Derek

 

[kenpo12]

Mr. Ence,

I think we are actually on the same page. I'm saying attack what targets your opponent gives you and not to expect a certain reaction. The point I was trying to make was not to speed through a written technique because you may move faster than your opponents body is reacting and just like you said he may react differently than expected forcing you to graft, formulate, etc.

Do you agree,

Matt

 

[Seig]

Disrespect will not be tolerated in this Forum. Keep it polite and professional.
Seig
-MT Moderator-

 

[dcence]

Mr. Ence,
I think we are actually on the same page. I'm saying attack what targets your opponent gives you and not to expect a certain reaction. The point I was trying to make was not to speed through a written technique because you may move faster than your opponents body is reacting and just like you said he may react differently than expected forcing you to graft, formulate, etc.
Do you agree,
Matt

You (and anyone else) may call me Derek outside of a formal class setting. And I do agree with you. However, it is as much a problem that people move too slow as too fast. You can always slow down if you want. You can't always speed up if you are already moving as fast as you can.

I think it is proper to expect a reaction; that is the premise of the technique sequence. But you can't rely on or wait for one. If you don't get the reaction you expected you alter and adjust, don't stop and wait.

Sometimes I think it is good thing to work a technique just as fast as you can, plus a little more. Other times you might focus on articulation, structural reinforcement. You have to push the limits to grow. Then when you are on a person, you can add the appropriate timing to fit the technique to the circumstance.
Derek

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by kenpo12
I don't dissagree but I'm not saying that the guy is out of range necessarily he may just be out of contact penetration range. I'm also not saying you're standing around, I'm talking about timing, as in tenths of seconds, not hitting a guy and standing around, c'mon.

I can either wait for him to rush back in and then fire it, or I can shuffle after him with the heel palm. In doing so I'm not changing the technique but I'm monitoring and timing my strikes.

Ok, maybe I'm misreading this but at first glance, it looks like you are saying that in order for you to do the palm strike, you need to either wait for him to come back in, or follow after him. All I'm saying is that you might not always be able to execute that "text book" technique. If the guy moves away, who cares about the palm strike?

Mike

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by MJS

Ok, maybe I'm misreading this but at first glance, it looks like you are saying that in order for you to do the palm strike, you need to either wait for him to come back in, or follow after him. All I'm saying is that you might not always be able to execute that "text book" technique. If the guy moves away, who cares about the palm strike?

I think Kenpo12 was offering that up as one of the various alternatives for that "what if" situation... adding a shuffle before the heel palm wouldn't kill the technique, neither would altering the weapon or target... I think either option would work, in the end it hinges on the practitioners preference. That's all.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Bill Lear
I think Kenpo12 was offering that up as one of the various alternatives for that "what if" situation... adding a shuffle before the heel palm wouldn't kill the technique, neither would altering the weapon or target... I think either option would work, in the end it hinges on the practitioners preference. That's all.

Bill- Thanks for the clarification!:asian: Just having one of those days where I need to read and re read and re read before it sinks in!

Mike

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by MJS

Bill- Thanks for the clarification!:asian: Just having one of those days where I need to read and re read and re read before it sinks in!

Not a problem.

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Bill Lear
I think Kenpo12 was offering that up as one of the various alternatives for that "what if" situation... adding a shuffle before the heel palm wouldn't kill the technique, neither would altering the weapon or target... I think either option would work, in the end it hinges on the practitioners preference. That's all.

Shuffle as needed...:asian: