Bill Lear
Brown Belt
1. Monitor
2. Adjust
3. Regulate
It's good to see someone employing this idea to their Kenpo.
Self Defense Technique Design.....
- Thread starter Goldendragon7
- Start date
1. Monitor
2. Adjust
3. Regulate
It's good to see someone employing this idea to their Kenpo.
O
ob2c
Guest
Another example of the same thing is Snaping Twig. After the elbow break, you pivot into a forward bow and crane his arm, pulling him in to you, as you deliver a handsword to his neck. A transitional forward bow is quicker, but locked out is more powerful for both the pull and the strike, bringing him more sharply off ballance and helpless to defend. Either gets the reaction, and works. But taking the extra millisecond or so instead of rushing it gets better results.
O
ob2c
Guest
Sword and Hammer
Is there a doc tor (Chapel) in the house?
Hopefully he will see this and can confirm or debunk it. But I think hitting the groin first and bending him over would cause you to have to alter the angle of delivery for your handsword, anteriorly rotating the hand and arm in order to strike up under his chin to the neck. This would put a lot of strain on your entire arm, especially at the shoulder. A hard strike could dammage you as well as him. I seem to recall this one comeing up somewhere before.
Is there a doc tor (Chapel) in the house?
Hopefully he will see this and can confirm or debunk it. But I think hitting the groin first and bending him over would cause you to have to alter the angle of delivery for your handsword, anteriorly rotating the hand and arm in order to strike up under his chin to the neck. This would put a lot of strain on your entire arm, especially at the shoulder. A hard strike could dammage you as well as him. I seem to recall this one comeing up somewhere before.
K
Kenpo Yahoo
Guest
Ok first off, hitting someone in the groin doesn't cause them to bend over. It usually just causes them to drop their height and push their butt out a little bit, but they don't really bend over at the waist. Most people do sword and hammer by executing a right outward chop to the neck, retracting the hand back to the body, and then firing the hammerfist to the groin. This is all well and good but requires two strokes and doesn't make the best use of the obscure zone.
I do Sword and hammer in such a way that I am able to hit the neck on the outstroke and hit the groin on the return stroke without having to rotate my arm really at all except to dig the strikes a little (this is one way that Mr. Mills has taught the technique). It is obscure, expedient, and most importantly effective. Also with this method I don't have to wait for my opponents reaction to decide if I can execute the next strike. The effect of the technique is maximized by, but not reliant on, my opponents reaction.
Also, by simply reversing the order of the strikes you can hammer the opponents groin which drops his weight right into the lifting reverse handsword. Remember the side of the neck, the throat, and the groin are all soft tissue targets; good targeting and some body mechanics are all you need to make this technique work you don't have to take anyones head off. Of course if the situation dictates such action then do what you gotta do.
K
Kenpo Yahoo
Guest
That's why it is imperative to train both the what and the how. A lot of people will tell you that it is the why that is important, and to some degree it is, but of equal importance is the how. How do you throw a punch in order to maximize its effect? At what angle of rotation does the elbow move out of alignment subsequently diminshing your potential power for that punch while increasing the likelihood of hurting yourself. The same should be learned for elbows, handswords (normal and reverse), kicks of all kinds, etc, etc.
When you do certain movements you need to know what will maximize your strike without causing injury to yourself. I'm sure you have all seen the karate guys who end up needing surgery on their shoulders and elbows, after years of improper movement. Learn your bodies limitations people, this includes proper angles of movement, appropriate speeds, etc.
O
ob2c
Guest
Maybe bend forwardwould have been a better way to say it. Bending doesn't necessarily mean bringing the head all the way down. But the angle of delivery of the handsword has to change both due to his altered posture and the new point of origin of your attack.
I'd agree that returning the hand to the body would be a waste of motion. From the handsword, the fist should arc directly down to the groin.
I'd agree that returning the hand to the body would be a waste of motion. From the handsword, the fist should arc directly down to the groin.
K
Kenpo Yahoo
Guest
After you hammer to the groin are you lifting to the throat with a reverse handsword (i.e. thumb side not blade side)? The changing of his posture is what gives the h.s. a little extra power, you don't want him to quit moving before you lift. You hammer and fire the lifting h.s. immediately to take advantage of your opponents downward movement.
D
dcence
Guest
Do it "Harder, Faster"
If you wait for reaction, you will always be one step behind it.
Derek
D
dcence
Guest
Falcons of Force would be an example of a gaseous interrpretation of Sword and Hammer, much like Snakes of Wisdom provides a gaseous application of Obscure Claws.
Derek
First of all the hammer fist to the groin would be faster than the handsword to the neck. (it is by far the closest weapon to the closest target)
Secondly its still ok to use your left hand to check high and flow into an activated check which will naturaly flow into a pushing or pulling down of the head (perhaps with his hair in your fist).
Thirdly, in this case you would simply chamber your hammerfist to your hip and sword hand him in the back of the neck.
Adding a reverse sword hand to the throat would negate what I was talking about to begin with.
Sean
Secondly its still ok to use your left hand to check high and flow into an activated check which will naturaly flow into a pushing or pulling down of the head (perhaps with his hair in your fist).
Thirdly, in this case you would simply chamber your hammerfist to your hip and sword hand him in the back of the neck.
Adding a reverse sword hand to the throat would negate what I was talking about to begin with.
Sean
Bill Lear
Brown Belt
According to what I know... Not even close.
K
kenpo12
Guest
When you say this, are you referring to your opponents voluntary or involuntary reaction? I'm not saying wait for your opponent to react, I'm saying don't get ahead of what your strikes or manipulations are doing to your opponents body.
O
ob2c
Guest
No, I used the regular handsword. A reverse handsword would make more sense for this modification, though.
O
ob2c
Guest
Just to take this a little further, what about Swinging Pendulum, where we actually delay his reaction to the groin shot with a left check while we move into position for the right elbow strike. That's another one where you could concievably injure yourself if you rush it and roll the shoulder forward to get a good angle. At the least, if you strike before you solidify the stance you'd loose power.
OP
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
- Thread Starter
- #35
the flexibility of Kenpo..... many of the answers are correct if put into perspective.
Are we talking "Ideal" or "What if"?
In the "what if" arena.... a strike to the groin may be the only option you have...... due to many circumstances and it CAN be as effective as anything else. So to say it is "not effective <or> better" than something else is not exactly accurate. When we need to alter techniques {and believe me, you will on the street} you have been given many-a-tool to help you [which many of you have used] to create a viable "new" sequence that is more than adequate. Realize that you still need to stay within principled bounds.
Keep in mind the:
* EQUATION FORMULA
The FORMULA is: to any given base move whether it
is a single move or a series of movements, you can:
(1) PREFIX it, add a move or moves before it,
(2) SUFFIX it, add a move or moves after it,
(3) INSERT, add a simultaneous move with the
already established sequence,
(4) REARRANGE, change the sequence of the moves, (5) ALTER the weapon, the target, or both,
(6) ADJUST the range, the angle of execution, or
both the angle of execution and the range,
(7) REGULATE the speed, the force, both speed and
force, intent and speed,
(8) DELETE, exclude a move or moves from the
sequence
most of you are using one or more of the above to create a viable alternative to the original "ideal" technique which is as it should be!
Gold Star for all!
:asian:
Are we talking "Ideal" or "What if"?
In the "what if" arena.... a strike to the groin may be the only option you have...... due to many circumstances and it CAN be as effective as anything else. So to say it is "not effective <or> better" than something else is not exactly accurate. When we need to alter techniques {and believe me, you will on the street} you have been given many-a-tool to help you [which many of you have used] to create a viable "new" sequence that is more than adequate. Realize that you still need to stay within principled bounds.
Keep in mind the:
* EQUATION FORMULA
The FORMULA is: to any given base move whether it
is a single move or a series of movements, you can:
(1) PREFIX it, add a move or moves before it,
(2) SUFFIX it, add a move or moves after it,
(3) INSERT, add a simultaneous move with the
already established sequence,
(4) REARRANGE, change the sequence of the moves, (5) ALTER the weapon, the target, or both,
(6) ADJUST the range, the angle of execution, or
both the angle of execution and the range,
(7) REGULATE the speed, the force, both speed and
force, intent and speed,
(8) DELETE, exclude a move or moves from the
sequence
most of you are using one or more of the above to create a viable alternative to the original "ideal" technique which is as it should be!
Gold Star for all!
:asian:
If no one minds the opinion of a American Kenpo cousin.
As GD7 states, the techs are tools. All prearanged techs are in the ideal phase. Meaning they work exactly if attacked by a person exactly as the tech is designed for and the attacker reacts exactly as the tech calls for and you do not miss any targets during the heat of battle.
Changing any of the above will change the tech. Which brings you to the what-if. What-if they don't bend over after striking the groin, what-if they body position is different after the first strike they throw, what-if you are fighting in California during an earthquake...
After that you will need to learn to be spontaneous. For EPAK, using the equation GD7 provides, learning your ideal and what-ifs, and other drills; will get you to that point.
I am a firm believer that you need to first learn your system, then really spend a great deal of time understanding your system (imo, two different things). Keep an open mind, and don't get into the habit of just dismissing something as "wrong", just look at it as there may be better options in a particular scenerio. 2+2=4, but so does 1+3, 5-1. or ((5x5)-13)/3.
As GD7 states, the techs are tools. All prearanged techs are in the ideal phase. Meaning they work exactly if attacked by a person exactly as the tech is designed for and the attacker reacts exactly as the tech calls for and you do not miss any targets during the heat of battle.
Changing any of the above will change the tech. Which brings you to the what-if. What-if they don't bend over after striking the groin, what-if they body position is different after the first strike they throw, what-if you are fighting in California during an earthquake...
After that you will need to learn to be spontaneous. For EPAK, using the equation GD7 provides, learning your ideal and what-ifs, and other drills; will get you to that point.
I am a firm believer that you need to first learn your system, then really spend a great deal of time understanding your system (imo, two different things). Keep an open mind, and don't get into the habit of just dismissing something as "wrong", just look at it as there may be better options in a particular scenerio. 2+2=4, but so does 1+3, 5-1. or ((5x5)-13)/3.
Bill Lear
Brown Belt
In response to Mr. Conatser's post above I have to say that when you get good enough, the "what if phase" is a transitional phase that should bring you right back into another "ideal phase" technique (or portion of one). This is where the "equation formula" (grafting/inserting) comes into play.
Clyde calls this type of transition the "even if phase", and I'm finding that it works rather well... Kinda like going from Locked Wing into Flight To Freedom. All of the techniques supplement each other in this way. You just have to look hard enough and it's there already.
Clyde calls this type of transition the "even if phase", and I'm finding that it works rather well... Kinda like going from Locked Wing into Flight To Freedom. All of the techniques supplement each other in this way. You just have to look hard enough and it's there already.
But in the mean time its ok to Pick targets, use the equation formula, and move from point of origin like everyone else, isn't it? And didn't Arnold ban earthquakes?Originally posted by Bill Lear
In response to Mr. Conatser's post above I have to say that when you get good enough, the "what if phase" is a transitional phase that should bring you right back into another "ideal phase" technique (or portion of one). This is where the "equation formula" (grafting/inserting) comes into play.
Clyde calls this type of transition the "even if phase", and I'm finding that it works rather well... Kinda like going from Locked Wing into Flight To Freedom. All of the techniques supplement each other in this way. You just have to look hard enough and it's there already.
Bill Lear
Brown Belt
How are you not moving from point of origin when initiating Flight To Freedom after the elbow strike in Locked Wing is blocked by your opponent?
And... No Arnold didn't ban Earthquakes. I wish he'd ban dumb asses though.
Who loves ya baby? :lol:
Then you'd have to move. HA HA HA
Anyways, I'm suggesting these techs don't need to be memorized and performed from ideal to ideal. In fact, they rarely are.
HA HA HAAnyways, I'm suggesting these techs don't need to be memorized and performed from ideal to ideal. In fact, they rarely are.
