RyuShiKan - Hero or Zero?

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I recently posted a strong opinion on the Karate forum about the lack of value of Kata training in a thread re whether 80 Katas was too many to learn. My point in that thread was the typical anti-kata train-for-real argument that Karate people hate to hear. But with someone asking if 80 Kata was too many, how could I resist?

RSK's 1st response was a reasonable request for me to take a hike over to the MMA forum. His next response was an attack on my instructors' competence. RSK also accused me of being uninformed. Most of the people on the forum agreed with his points regarding my argument and accused me of trolling.

RSK kept a civil tone while personally attacking me and my instructors and defended his position with a theoretical argument but no actual facts.

Personally, I think his opinion was wrong, his personal attacks were wrong, but his motivation was to defend his training experience.

Maybe that's OK on this forum. I don't know.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The reports -from- others have varied depending on where/when.

The reports -from- him have usually involved a-people disagreeing with him, or b-childishly reporting almost every post by someone else who he was involved in a battle with. He was suspended at least once for abusing the RTM function.

Does stability mean that nobody challenges the armchair warrior sokes and super master sifu 10th dans?

No. It means doing it in the right place and right manner using a system that Roberts inquisition forced us to put in place.

As to falling into his lap, I don't see it that way. There are a number of threads where folks from 'different' systems put up their information, seminars, etc and he tore them to shreads.

Of course, his own website is no longer there for the same peer review, so we can't return the 'curiosity' in kind.

:asian:

 

[MartialArtist]

I have referred 0 people, and a lot of people probably have referred 0 people also. Does that mean that we don't contribute? Does it mean that if we do have some referrals, that we get some leeway? Why does it matter?

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
I recently posted a strong opinion on the Karate forum about the lack of value of Kata training in a thread re whether 80 Katas was too many to learn. My point in that thread was the typical anti-kata train-for-real argument that Karate people hate to hear. But with someone asking if 80 Kata was too many, how could I resist?

RSK's 1st response was a reasonable request for me to take a hike over to the MMA forum. His next response was an attack on my instructors' competence. RSK also accused me of being uninformed. Most of the people on the forum agreed with his points regarding my argument and accused me of trolling.

RSK kept a civil tone while personally attacking me and my instructors and defended his position with a theoretical argument but no actual facts.

Personally, I think his opinion was wrong, his personal attacks were wrong, but his motivation was to defend his training experience.

Maybe that's OK on this forum. I don't know.

Well, I'll tell you what I felt when I read his response to you. To me, It kinda hurt. Maybe it sounds like I'm thin skinned, but that's how it goes. What can I tell you. You didn't deserve it.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
I recently posted a strong opinion on the Karate forum about the lack of value of Kata training in a thread re whether 80 Katas was too many to learn. My point in that thread was the typical anti-kata train-for-real argument that Karate people hate to hear. But with someone asking if 80 Kata was too many, how could I resist?

RSK's 1st response was a reasonable request for me to take a hike over to the MMA forum. His next response was an attack on my instructors' competence. RSK also accused me of being uninformed. Most of the people on the forum agreed with his points regarding my argument and accused me of trolling.

RSK kept a civil tone while personally attacking me and my instructors and defended his position with a theoretical argument but no actual facts.

Personally, I think his opinion was wrong, his personal attacks were wrong, but his motivation was to defend his training experience.

Maybe that's OK on this forum. I don't know.

Actually tell it like it was. I was not the only that disagreed with you.

Here is the original question:

I have a relatively simple to ask but in depth to answer, question and I would appreciate any comments or reasoning related to it. How many different kata (either empty handed or kobudo) do you think it is necessary to practice to gain their maximum benefit? Do you think there is a point where a person could know or practice too many different kata? Let’s assume the normal time constraints of a single working male. For example do you think 13 empty handed kata is a good number or perhaps 4, or perhaps 32? With Kobudo do you think 50 is appropriate, or 10? What is your reasoning?

Thank-you in advance for your insight and time.

-Paul Holsinger


And here is your answer:

One Kata is too many if your training time is limited. What do you get by studying Kata? I'll tell you. You get good at Tai Chi. I spent too much time practicing and teaching Kata. I should have spent all my time conditioning, working the bag, and sparring. So should you.

______________________________

It was not only obvious to others but to myself that your post was done to stir up trouble.........which it did.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
I recently posted a strong opinion on the Karate forum about the lack of value of Kata training in a thread re whether 80 Katas was too many to learn. My point in that thread was the typical anti-kata train-for-real argument that Karate people hate to hear. But with someone asking if 80 Kata was too many, how could I resist?

RSK's 1st response was a reasonable request for me to take a hike over to the MMA forum. His next response was an attack on my instructors' competence. RSK also accused me of being uninformed. Most of the people on the forum agreed with his points regarding my argument and accused me of trolling.

RSK kept a civil tone while personally attacking me and my instructors and defended his position with a theoretical argument but no actual facts.

Personally, I think his opinion was wrong, his personal attacks were wrong, but his motivation was to defend his training experience.

Maybe that's OK on this forum. I don't know.

You expect facts to back up the significance of katas and forms in combat training? There are no facts, only experiences. My experience is if you do them right, and know what they are for, then it will help. If you just do the form and just do the motions, then it's useless and you will sooner or later get dumped on your *** if that's all you do. A personal opinion based on experience and the experience of others.

Some things you really can't back up with facts

 

[RyuShiKan]

Hubbard,

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Of course, his own website is no longer there for the same peer review, so we can't return the 'curiosity' in kind.

My credentials are impeccable and my knowledge of MA, Japanese & Okinawan MA history, TCM, Japanese Language bury yours and more than a few of your Mods.

 

[Marginal]

Kinda depends on what's more useful. Friendly but unproductive/uninformative discussion or a bit of self policing to keep things flowing along the lines of the relevant.

Calling a poster like platnum_angel a troll for example is hardly a stretch. Infight's apparently gotten a lot of lattitude when all he seems to do is insult people in the TKD forum etc. Losing those types is never going to be a loss to a forum. I don't see a whole lot of merit to keeping known frauds around either. May be "friendlier", but if they're not contributing reliable/useful info, what's the point?

This is just my opinion though. I mainly visit MT because style vs style wars are hacked down to a minimum relative to other sites I've visited. That's about as friendly as I need it personally.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Hubbard,


My credentials are impeccable and my knowledge of MA, Japanese & Okinawan MA history, TCM, Japanese Language bury yours and more than a few of your Mods.

And?

Where are your credentials? You took your site down, so we cant look em up.

Oh, and the world does not revolve around the narrow area you may or may not understand.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

OK, so you can start another pole and vote me a zero.

Here is what I read and responded to in that thread:

I would appreciate any comments or reasoning

I stated my opinion with no personal attack on anyone. What did I get in response?

From RSK's 1st response:

un-informed, narrow minded, uneducated

From a later RSK response:

………so I am guessing your teacher didn’t know the applications or maybe just didn’t want to show you………..I would be willing to be he most likely didn’t know them.

I do admit that my post was controversial and agitated most visitors who strongly disagreed with me. I said as much in my earlier post on this thread. But, I never attacked anyone's personal ability, intelligence, or their instructors competence.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by Marginal
Calling a poster like platnum_angel a troll for example is hardly a stretch. Infight's apparently gotten a lot of lattitude when all he seems to do is insult people in the TKD forum etc. Losing those types is never going to be a loss to a forum. I don't see a whole lot of merit to keeping known frauds around either. May be "friendlier", but if they're not contributing reliable/useful info, what's the point?

I'm not aware of any reports recently concerning "Infight".

As to the contributions, regarding RSK, I see a lot of 'I aint gonna tell you' and cut-n-pastes. Not much else beyond his vendettas, sadly.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
And?

Where are your credentials? You took your site down, so we cant look em up.

Oh, and the world does not revolve around the narrow area you may or may not understand.

I posted some of them yesterday on a post you responded to.......I guess you haven't been reading them thoroughly enough.
In fact it was a question posted by your very own Mod Rich Parsons that I responded to.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
OK, so you can start another pole and vote me a zero.

Here is what I read in that thread:


I stated my opinion with no personal attack on anyone. What did I get in response?

From RSK's 1st response:


From a later RSK response:

Here is the thread people:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8352

Read the whole thing to get the best understanding of it.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
I have referred 0 people, and a lot of people probably have referred 0 people also. Does that mean that we don't contribute? Does it mean that if we do have some referrals, that we get some leeway? Why does it matter?

No. Was 1 part of a greater argument.

There is a difference.

A 'zero referer' who is a positive, contributing member, who doesn't cause a ton of problems, or drive folks away, is perfectly fine.

A 'zero referer', who is disruptive, drives folks away, and attempts to run roughshod over this forum is -not- welcome.

We got rid of Napalm....we got rid of MoroMoro...we got rid of Platnium-angel...

anyone see a pattern here?

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
I'm not aware of any reports recently concerning "Infight".

As to the contributions, regarding RSK, I see a lot of 'I aint gonna tell you' and cut-n-pastes. Not much else beyond his vendettas, sadly.

Most people don't care to report. I really don't.

But look at the TKD thread and see. "Throat practice blah blah" and even claimed he can beat up Mike Tyson. It could have been a joke but it seemed he was actually serious saying that Tyson was an incomplete fighter compared to his world class training.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
No. Was 1 part of a greater argument.

There is a difference.

A 'zero referer' who is a positive, contributing member, who doesn't cause a ton of problems, or drive folks away, is perfectly fine.

A 'zero referer', who is disruptive, drives folks away, and attempts to run roughshod over this forum is -not- welcome.

We got rid of Napalm....we got rid of MoroMoro...we got rid of Platnium-angel...

anyone see a pattern here?

So people with referrals get leniency?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
So people with referrals get leniency?

No.

Nor do people who are sponsors.

But, someone with 1000 posts and no complaints will probably get more leeway than someone with 5 posts and 3 complaints.



Before anyone says anything about this being public, RSK wanted more stuff done in public. The numbers at teh top are quite telling too.



Another point...if you dont care to use the RTM feature, then, to be blunt, don't expect us to always read everything and see everything. We can't be everywhere. That feature is there so that if you see a potential (or blatent problem) we can tackle it rapidly. One of us will look into that issue when we can. For faster service, use the RTM feature.

Its the same as standing at the counter and complaining about the poor service, while the "Please Ring for service" bell sits there unused.

:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

Bob, stop trying to make yourself feel better by supporting your decision to toss Robert out with a general call to arms against him. Either boot him, or don't.

You and other Mods have multiple accounts. You and other mods post under multiple accounts. You have banned others for doing so. Is there a caveat that Mods can do this while members can't?

Robert has reacted to the public claims of questionable people, to the public claims of people who claim to possess information or knowledge that they either really don't or don't to the degree they claim, and he has reacted to the emotionally charged replies people he has questioned have made when their arts and their efforts were shown to have elements that might make them less than the be-all-end-all they claimed they were. Sometimes you offend folks. Sometimes you don't. When they get their dander up, you either quail and back down, or you hold your ground. Some folks have trouble with that, I guess...

I admit that some of his tangential threads could have been left alone, but I don't remember Robert ever going out initially to hunt down those whose profiles didn't sit well with him. "Hey boys, let's go hunt us some McDojo-philes!" Sorry, never heard that announcement a single time.

The folks that I've seen ***** most are the folks who have had their arts and practice called into question. They're pissed off, so they run to mommy and daddy to tattle rather than provide arguments justifying and substantiating their claims. They could use the ignore feature, they could choose to fight back. But instead they cry and run away with their feelings all hurted... :wah: The other folks who bellyache about Robert's gruffness appear to me to be East and West coast thin-skinned whiners who have trouble dealing with the no-nonsense attitude of us Midwesterners... Find a way to deal with it. I have yet to find any of us to be open to loving, sharing, caring, feather wearing, crystal carrying, group hugs in the face of frauds, lies and other nonsense.

And about the poll here... If I were to have ever posted a poll calling someone a name and asking for a vote to kick or not kick someone off the board, what would the ramifications have been? I think such a poll is way beneath you , Bob. But in the end, I want to thank you for confirming in me my decision to just go away for a long while. With your juvenile reaction to this issue, I am definitely going away for longer than I had thought. But hey, it's your website, right? So that makes it your yard and your ball, so play how you like... And I was your second vote. I'm sure you will grieve my absence... :shrug: But in the end, with the loss of any members, you are the one losing out.

Everyone reading this - either support Robert and his views and don't be afraid to voice your opinions against people whose BS fails the common sense tests. Or don't. Seems to me I recall that the way to enlightenment in many older martial arts and temples lay in the stern application of a stick of bamboo, not a warm and friendly hug...

Robert, you know where to find me.

Open invite for anyone in the Tacoma/SeaTac/Seattle area to train with us Yili folks, provided you have a thick enough skin to handle it... We make fun of ourselves constantly, so folks with tender sensibilities need not apply. And we don't play patty cake, either, so if you just want to wear spiffy jammies and pretend to train, stay home.

See you around the pike, Bob. Or not. Either one is inevitable.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
I'm not aware of any reports recently concerning "Infight".

Then maybe you should monitor the threads more and rely on reports less...

As to the contributions, regarding RSK, I see a lot of 'I aint gonna tell you' and cut-n-pastes. Not much else beyond his vendettas, sadly.

Sure. Saves a lot of writing time. However, having trained with Robert (oh yeah, you haven't, have you?), I can verify that he elaborates on all of that info... Of course, I'm a co-conspirator, right? So my word means dick anyway...

So many posts while I was writing my response. I'm gonna get a little stuck in before I leave (or get booted, whichever comes first). Sad its come down to this, but time to take off the gloves...

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
A 'zero referer', who is disruptive, drives folks away, and attempts to run roughshod over this forum is -not- welcome.

We got rid of Napalm....we got rid of MoroMoro...we got rid of Platnium-angel...

anyone see a pattern here?

Johnny Napalm contribued nothing of worth, even in the threads he was not actively flaming.

Moromoro picked a fight, straight out. He insulted the WMAA, Tim Hartman, and called Tim's recent promotion a complete fraud. He came out swinging, rather than reacting to things as Robert has done in the past.

Platinum Angel was another case of constant trolling with no actual posting of any intelligible information.

Robert, in comparison, has pissed some folks off, but has always been ready with information. The fact that you don't like his "cut and paste" approach doesn't decrease his contributions... What, besides you poll above, have you contributed to discussions lately?