Reading Parker's Infinite Insights

[Matt Bernius]

Question for all you Kenpo folks. I'm not involved with Kenpo but have a huge respect for it and Professor Parker. Which of these books (or his others) would make a good reference for someone outside of the system who would like to understand it's basic tenants and concepts?

- Matt

 

[Michael Billings]

... a very good place to start.

Volume #1 has some very essential information, in terms of how to conceptually organize Kenpo. Without it you are operating in a bit of a vacuum.

Volumes #2 & #3 are primarily about basics, but also lead us through "how to's" which are essential to understand and execute the techniques. "Basics - you have to have a strong foundation", as Sigung LaBounty would say. These books also contain Principles and Concepts that relate to correct application. And you continue to learn the nomenclature essential to communicating with anyone else who is in this system.

Volumes #4 & #5 are my favorites. Although anyone can benefit from reading them as a stand alone resouce, it adds depth to your level of understanding if you have read the other books.

They were written sequentially on purpose, in the order SGM Parker perceived as necessary.

Have fun and take your time. We all re-read them all the time (at least lots of us do), and I always find something new. I am on my 2nd set now.

-Michael

 

[teej]

I find that they hold a vast knowledge. There most certainly are areas easier to understand than others. Different readers will interpret parts differently.

I one thing that I do find is that everytime I read or look into them, I find or learn something different. Or something else makes sense. Or I better understand a direction Mr. Parker was going. (or think i do, lol)

Just remember that they are a guide to follow of how some things were at the time they were written. That SGM Parker always envisions improvements and evolution of American Kenpo.

Final word, They are a great source of wealth and knowledge.

Yours in Kenpo,
Teej

 

[ob2c]

I voted:
I have read all five of Parker's Infinite Insights books within the past year.

But, I have to admit that I cheated..., sort of. I've tried to order them before and, for variouse reasons, was unsuccessful. So I finally just ordered some used ones from variouse sources. I got them all in jsut before Christmas, and I'v devoured them! I'm just about finished with 5, then I intend to re-read them and take notes. Good info for anyone, indespensable for a Kenpo practitioner.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by ob2c
I have read all five of Parker's Infinite Insights books Good info for anyone, indespensable for a Kenpo practitioner.

Agreed!!!!!!!

 

[Seig]

I think that as a practitioner progresses and his understanding grows his perceptions will change. As this occurs, it is a good idea to go back and reread the volumes.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

there should be a poll for this question

Is reading Parker's infinite insights (5 volumes) a requirement for all American Kenpo practicers ???

Yes or No

 

[rschoon]

I first read them years ago (they were much more available). I am now on night shift and have just re-read the series again. I have gleened a great deal more info from them this time around and "saw" a lot more information that I did't see when I use them for reference.

I also understand a lot more of it now than I did way back when.

Rick artyon:

 

[Nightingale]

they're definitely worth the read! I learned a lot.

 

[kenpoworks]

The I.I. series, is Ed Parkers legacy to the Art of Kenpo and by its nature is referential.

My books where purchased from and signed by Mr. Parker himself.
Well all the books i have in the I.I. series are signed by mr. P except No 5, which, was swapped by a Kenpo "brother" for an unsigned copy about 10 yrs after purchase at a seminar(sorry, I just had too get that one off my chest).
what I have found is that as my meagre knowledge of Kenpo grows, that the I.I. series grows in value also.
Richy.

 

[kenpoworks]

The I.I. series, is Ed Parkers legacy to the Art of Kenpo and by its nature is referential.

My books where purchased from and signed by Mr. Parker himself.
Well all the books i have in the I.I. series are signed by mr. P except No 5, which, was swapped by a Kenpo "brother" for an unsigned copy about 10 yrs after purchase at a seminar(sorry, I just had too get that one off my chest).
what I have found is that as my meagre knowledge of Kenpo grows, that the I.I. series grows in value.
Richy.

 

[Goldendragon7]

The I.I. series, is Ed Parkers legacy to the Art of Kenpo and by its nature is referential.


All the books I have in the I.I. series are signed by Mr. P, I have found that my meagre of Kenpo I.I. series knowledge grows in value with time. Richy.

Yep, you got that right.... they are a true treasure!

:asian:

 

[rschoon]

Another good read is the "Encyclopedia of Kenpo", especially for the non-kenpoist. It will help a person to glean a decent idea of our terminology and many of the concepts and principles.

Respect to all!

Rick

 

[cdhall]

... to sit down and read in-depth, repeatedly. Lots and lots of information in there ... not sure you would ever find it at the Holiday Inn. So Doc, will we find Infinite Insights in our night stands at the neighborhood Holiday Inn?

-Michael

Probably won't find them on your night stand, but if you wake up feeling like a Fifth Degree it may be because of the great rest you had. :ultracool

Unless of course you stay in a Holiday Inn during your test for Fifth. That might get you a spot as their spokesperson. :idunno:

However, I was going to say that I started reading Infinite Insights cover to cover about 12 years ago and bogged down in Book 3 if I recall. Since then I may have actually finished them by jumping around and reading them and using them as a reference so much. I agree that they could have been more tightly edited. And of course they are "dated" by today's published standards/methods.

And having someone else re-write Mr. Parker's books would be a bad move. It would be better for someone(s) to write their own. Like Mr. Wedlake has done. I've read one or two of his books and they were pretty good. I think Kenpo 101 I really liked.

I had heard that Mr. Parker, Jr. was going to update the series once but I didn't know he had plans to do one volume. It may be cool to do one volume as 8.5 x 11 or something and incorporate the Encyclopedia of Kenpo and publish it that way. That could be a very handy and heavily illustrated reference.

What about an interactive CD or DVD to go with it? Hmmm.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

I have read all five volumes. I think that books 1-3 are important to read at the beginner level and 4 and 5 contain advanced concepts that can be read as a beginner, but are more readily understood once you've built a knowledge base and have had experience in applying that knowledge. I believe that any Martial Artist could find something in these books, but all Kenpo practitioners would benefit from reading and rereading them. I learn something every time I pick one up. There are lots of great books by other Kenpo practitioners that are beneficial to read, but I think that the Infinite Insights are the greatest reference, and for some reason I think I like the fact that they haven't been tampered with. Maybe it's because Kenpo seems to have moved in some different directions that I like seeing what Ed Parker's original intentions were for the art. A friend just sent this link to me last night. I haven't ordered anything from it yet, but for those of you who are having trouble locating part or all of the volumes, I did see that they are available here. http://www.superiormartialarts.com/catalog/uniform/kenpobooks.html

 

[Doc]

... Maybe it's because Kenpo seems to have moved in some different directions that I like seeing what Ed Parker's original intentions were for the art...

Interesting perspectives, however the Infinite Insights do not represent Ed Parker's "...original intentions ... for the art ..." unless you're speaking only of his later commercial art. His first book, "Secrets of Chinese "Karate" more closely represents his original intentions once he came to the mainland. Circumstances caused him to create an alternate and simultaneously evolving art he began to represent in his second book, "Kenpo Karate." Many of the important things in this book too were also stripped away when he embraced the "motion" only concept for commercial dissemination. Perhaps you might go back a bit further and examine those historical published works as well so that you might form a broader opinion.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Interesting perspectives, however the Infinite Insights do not represent Ed Parker's "...original intentions ... for the art ..." unless you're speaking only of his later commercial art. His first book, "Secrets of Chinese "Karate" more closely represents his original intentions once he came to the mainland. Circumstances caused him to create an alternate and simultaneously evolving art he began to represent in his second book, "Kenpo Karate." Many of the important things in this book too were also stripped away when he embraced the "motion" only concept for commercial dissemination. Perhaps you might go back a bit further and examine those historical published works as well so that you might form a broader opinion.

Doc,
First it seems that perhaps a hello is in order. :asian: Hello, and thanks so much for your interest. I see now from this thread that you are more than familiar with Infinite Insights. That's great.

What you have to say here is very interesting to me, because I've been curious about finding out more information regarding Ed Parker's original intent in terms of Kenpo. Actually, I was originally more specifically interested in the Kenpo we learn today and why it often differs amongst some Kenpo schools. I wanted to know more about the way Ed Parker originally wanted the material presented in Kenpo as he first presented it. I am most interested in how that may have changed in translation over time to the differences in what we are learning in the present.

These thoughts of mine are the result of research on Kenpo for my thesis paper. I discovered that Ed Parker had a written curriculum, which you must also know of; I think it is entitled the "Accumulative Journal". I would love to find that as well, but was disappointed to learn that it is no longer in print. I remain interested in Ed Parker's intentions before others influenced the teaching of the Kenpo that is taught today. This interest was sparked by research and an article that I read: Kenpo Never Change. Further, since Ed Parker authored the Infinite Insights books, I assumed these were his original thoughts, or rather his original intentions, for Kenpo. I had not considered otherwise.

As of 6:41 am that was the best information I had on the subject matter. Thanks for the enlightenment. I had no idea that Ed Parker had considered something different from the beginning, but find it fascinating that he made changes in his intent, and I wonder about that. I am further curious as to whether or not you think that some of the original concepts should have remained.

However, whether it was his first conception for Kenpo, or what circumstances may have caused him to change from his original intent, my feelings about these five books remain the same, and my interest in how he wanted the material presented remains the same. Perhaps sometime after I've had a chance to read the other books we could discuss the changes in his intent.

Either way it sounds like the books you are recommending may help me in some way in my quest - good books for a thirsty mind are always a welcome thing! I will put them on my list of reads right after I finish "The Path to Excellence" which is due to arrive in a week.

It's funny how we come to learn new things, because my original intent here, on this thread, was simply to agree with something you had said earlier in this thread about it being Edmund Parker's place, if anyone's, to make changes to the volumes. I didn't state it before, but I agree with that. At the same time, I also think they are fine just the way they are.

I'm glad I didn't make that simple statement, because I've learned something new. Thanks.

Respectfully,
MJ

 

[Doc]

Doc,
First it seems that perhaps a hello is in order. :asian: Hello, and thanks so much for your interest. I see now from this thread that you are more than familiar with Infinite Insights. That's great.

Same to you sir. If you look again you’ll find I am in every volume.

What you have to say here is very interesting to me, because I've been curious about finding out more information regarding Ed Parker's original intent in terms of Kenpo. Actually, I was originally more specifically interested in the Kenpo we learn today and why it often differs amongst some Kenpo schools.

The contemporary or the business kenpo is by design an interpretive conceptual product. Instructors as well as students were supposed to interpret that material to their personally liking. Clearly in the arts this was innovative on one level, but destructive to the overall art on another that establishes no definitive material beyond the generalized concepts. Every school, student, teacher is different because the only goal was to make the individual as competent as possible with the available material. Even simple blocks are different from student to student and school to school. This is an anomaly in the arts and far from the norm in other discipline with more depth of available knowledge or definitive structure.

I wanted to know more about the way Ed Parker originally wanted the material presented in Kenpo as he first presented it. I am most interested in how that may have changed in translation over time to the differences in what we are learning in the present.

Good luck there. That’s like attempting to decipher Henry Ford’s original intent for his method for the building of the automobile. You might want to re-think that position rather than trying to find a definitive thought process for an entity designed to be interpreted by whomever comes in contact with it.

Simply, he was creating a conceptual vehicle that every student could find value in, and come away with something they find functional that did NOT require his presence day-to-day for instructors or students to learn. Afterall he was the one and only expert for this newly created conceptual art and couldn't be everywhere on a consistent basis. His personal art, is another story however.

These thoughts of mine are the result of research on Kenpo for my thesis paper. I discovered that Ed Parker had a written curriculum, which you must also know of; I think it is entitled the "Accumulative Journal".

I was looking at my copy yesterday cleaning out my archives after moving a school. Although I never really used it, I was presented with a copy of most material as Parker produced it from the early sixties so I have a lot of stuff.

I also took a look at the original commercial material of 32 techniques per belt that started with orange and stopped at green. After green the material changes to “green/brown” where the extensions of the orange belt material are added back in. It wasn’t until much later that the purple extensions, weapon forms, etc were added to expand the commercial and competition material.

I would love to find that as well, but was disappointed to learn that it is no longer in print.

There are lots of guys that still have theirs. I bet Dennis Conatser is another with it. That Dude (he’s a Bud so I can call him that), never got rid of anything. Parker used to call him the “Pack Rat” he accumulated so much written material from every source he could get his hands on.

I remain interested in Ed Parker's intentions before others influenced the teaching of the Kenpo that is taught today.

Now you are moving in a completely different direction. Before Parker was influenced by Chinese Masters in California, the Kenpo was closer to what he was taught in Hawaii and represented in his first commercial “kenpo karate” book in 1961. But even that was evolving rapidly before he “split off” the commercial motion based version.

This interest was sparked by research and an article that I read: Kenpo Never Change.

Ed Parker used to say, “Kenpo never changes, but is perpetually refined.” But he was not talking about a single entity Kenpo as most think it is. There are many, many versions inclusive of the commercial “Kenpo” with the word “karate” attached to it that he taught and sold as a business model for instructor students to make a living. This is the perpetually refined kenpo he spoke of which was based on a teachers/students personal interpretation and use of abstract motion theory. It changed from teacher to teacher, student to student, and Parker ranked them according to their own group not to an overall “kenpo” as well.

Further, since Ed Parker authored the Infinite Insights books, I assumed these were his original thoughts, or rather his original intentions, for Kenpo. I had not considered otherwise.

Infinite Insights were written as a model for all martial artists as you observed, however Ed Parker used his commercial version of kenpo as the basis for the business material he had evolved from the early seventies. Actually there was no new material in the Infinite Insights. It simply represented commercial product Parker (and others) worked on from about 1972 to 1980. In fact in the first volume he states as much, and the first volume was published as I recall in 1981.

As of 6:41 am that was the best information I had on the subject matter. Thanks for the enlightenment. I had no idea that Ed Parker had considered something different from the beginning, but find it fascinating that he made changes in his intent, and I wonder about that. I am further curious as to whether or not you think that some of the original concepts should have remained.

The original (and more) material does remain, it simply is not represented in the business model because it is too labor intensive and requires extensive knowledge not available to most. Additionally Parker never intended for it to be mass disseminated per his agreement with the Chinese who took him under their wing as a non-white and entrusted him with certain information the Chinese still hold close to the vest.

However, whether it was his first conception for Kenpo, or what circumstances may have caused him to change from his original intent, my feelings about these five books remain the same, and my interest in how he wanted the material presented remains the same. Perhaps sometime after I've had a chance to read the other books we could discuss the changes in his intent.

Parker never had a change of intent. He continued to expand and accumulate knowledge of the science until he passed. However the information in Infinite Insights represents more of a necessary divergence from his concurrently developing personal art, rather than a replacement as some may suggest. Clearly the Parker seen on film in the fifties and sixties is different in execution than the Parker of the eighties. He is not executing the material represented in Infinite Insights. That is why most could not replicate what Parker did when he executed a technique. He was not doing the same thing he was teaching. In later video of seminars, you can see that when he teaches slowly he does things different than when he “explodes.”

Either way it sounds like the books you are recommending may help me in some way in my quest - good books for a thirsty mind are always a welcome thing! I will put them on my list of reads right after I finish "The Path to Excellence" which is due to arrive in a week.

You will find them interesting, and they contain information that is not in Infinite Insights and allude to things mysteriously “dropped” later on from the commercial kenpo that remained in Parker’s personal evolution. I always use the “slap-check” as an example. It was never written about in any of Parker’s published work, yet was very prominent in his explosive execution.

It's funny how we come to learn new things, because my original intent here, on this thread, was simply to agree with something you had said earlier in this thread about it being Edmund Parker's place, if anyone's, to make changes to the volumes. I didn't state it before, but I agree with that. At the same time, I also think they are fine just the way they are.

Yes, the only thing I would like to see Edmund do is re-do some of the pictures, (As Ed Parker intended to do before he passed), and compile the volumes into one large hard cover with an addendum from Ed Parker Jr. separate from the original material.

I'm glad I didn't make that simple statement, because I've learned something new. Thanks.

My final advice, is don't think of American Kenpo as a single entity with an expectation everyone is even close to the same thing. Beyond the, what has become, the generic name, most are very different interpretations as Parker intended for most.

I always learn something in these exchanges. Thank you for participating. We must do it again sir.

Resectfully,

 

[Storm]

they're definitely worth the read! I learned a lot.

I am just im the middle of reading the third volume. So much infor and so much to take in. Very good hope I can get my hands on the other volumes.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Same to you sir. If you look again you’ll find I am in every volume.

Hello again, and let me say that I am sorry for the assumption that I am a sir. I suppose MJ is the reason. MJ stands for Mary Jo. I could be granted a pass into the ladies locker room if desired. I will certainly look to find you in each volume.

The contemporary or the business kenpo is by design an interpretive conceptual product. Instructors as well as students were supposed to interpret that material to their personally liking. Clearly in the arts this was innovative on one level, but destructive to the overall art on another that establishes no definitive material beyond the generalized concepts. Every school, student, teacher is different because the only goal was to make the individual as competent as possible with the available material. Even simple blocks are different from student to student and school to school. This is an anomaly in the arts and far from the norm in other discipline with more depth of available knowledge or definitive structure.

This is the way it was presented to me by my instructor and I found it to be very curious that Ed Parker would allow such freedom in interpretation. I totally agree with you that by design, intentional or not, this is both innovative and destructive to the art at the same time. I was curious as to why he never made video tapes, other than Sophisticated Basics (that I am aware of) to show the techniques, basics, sets and forms to promote consistency. It was this paradigm between innovation and what I considered to be a form of inherent self destruction that sparked my interest in finding out Ed Parker's intent for Kenpo. It just didn't make complete sense to me. It is most curious.

After reading the quote below I began to wonder why Ed Parker would want the base system to be taught identically, yet not have a written curriculum. That led me to the knowledge of the Accumulative Journal. I was happy to hear this, because it meant to me that he built something that he must have believed was worth preserving in some way. I'm not sure if you know him, but this was written by a man named Kevin Lamkin and is an excerpt from the article Kenpo Never Changes:

I asked Mr. Parker (he preferred to be called 'Ed') why the American Kenpo in his own organization had so much variance between schools. He seemed agitated about this question, yet I went further to inform him that the instructor who had hosted a recent seminar stated that this was because Ed Parker is always changing the system. Before I could complete my sentence, Mr. Parker blew-up and firmly stated,

"Kenpo Never Changes, it Perpetually Refines Itself."
​

He added, "Very few instructors understand this parable. What it refers to is this; My system should be taught from the base system, The Ideal Phase of each technique. I will be starting a limited franchise of schools next year (1988). Each school will teach, as all should, the techniques, basics and forms identically. What the instructor is charged to do is to "tailor"the technique - after the Ideal Phase is understood. In this way, Kenpo remains the same and is refined perpetually for the student."

Reading this led me to believe that Ed Parker actually wanted some consistency in Kenpo to transcend time. If this is the case, and Ed Parker actually wanted Kenpo to always begin with the same base, I was curious how it changed so much. If this is truly the case, and there was a consistent curriculum that was intended to be taught identically in it's ideal phase, than one might conclude that the ideal phase at least should have remained the same, but yet I've seen lots of versions of the "same" Kenpo techniques, and not always qualified as tailored versions. This is the reason for my interest in the Accumulative Journal. As an instructor, I just really wanted to see how he, (and as I know now, his collaborators) believed the basics should be presented.

I was looking at my copy yesterday cleaning out my archives after moving a school. Although I never really used it, I was presented with a copy of most material as Parker produced it from the early sixties so I have a lot of stuff.

I'm wondering why you never really used this. Was it because you knew the material, or because you didn't find it necessary or valuable in your teaching?
Would you ever consider sharing this?

I also took a look at the original commercial material of 32 techniques per belt that started with orange and stopped at green. After green the material changes to “green/brown” where the extensions of the orange belt material are added back in. It wasn’t until much later that the purple extensions, weapon forms, etc were added to expand the commercial and competition material.

This history is interesting. Thanks.

Ed Parker used to say, “Kenpo never changes, but is perpetually refined.” But he was not talking about a single entity Kenpo as most think it is. There are many, many versions inclusive of the commercial “Kenpo” with the word “karate” attached to it that he taught and sold as a business model for instructor students to make a living. This is the perpetually refined kenpo he spoke of which was based on a teachers/students personal interpretation and use of abstract motion theory. It changed from teacher to teacher, student to student, and Parker ranked them according to their own group not to an overall “kenpo” as well.

Thank you for this. This, rather than what I read in the article, makes more sense in explaining the changes in Kenpo. Ironically, while I would like to see a little more common ground in Kenpo, as a certified teacher - the idea of individualization is what most attracts me to Kenpo.

Infinite Insights were written as a model for all martial artists as you observed, however Ed Parker used his commercial version of kenpo as the basis for the business material he had evolved from the early seventies. Actually there was no new material in the Infinite Insights. It simply represented commercial product Parker (and others) worked on from about 1972 to 1980. In fact in the first volume he states as much, and the first volume was published as I recall in 1981

I'll have to reread that. I had certainly considered that even Ed Parker had influences in his training that led him to developing this system, and as far as collaboration goes, in retrospect I do remember reading things about him thanking various people for their contributions.

The original (and more) material does remain, it simply is not represented in the business model because it is too labor intensive and requires extensive knowledge not available to most. Additionally Parker never intended for it to be mass disseminated per his agreement with the Chinese who took him under their wing as a non-white and entrusted him with certain information the Chinese still hold close to the vest.

This is interesting! I feel cheated...just kidding I think I could spend the rest of my life trying to understand Infinite Insights alone!

Ed Parker never had a change of intent. He continued to expand and accumulate knowledge of the science until he passed. However the information in Infinite Insights represents more of a necessary divergence from his concurrently developing personal art, rather than a replacement as some may suggest. Clearly the Parker seen on film in the fifties and sixties is different in execution than the Parker of the eighties. He is not executing the material represented in Infinite Insights. That is why most could not replicate what Parker did when he executed a technique. He was not doing the same thing he was teaching. In later video of seminars, you can see that when he teaches slowly he does things different than when he “explodes.”

This may be the most interesting exchange of all. Perhaps this is the essence of Martial Arts...the art part of the art - evolving self-expression. If you could presume, and if you feel you can't that is okay, what do you think Ed Parker would think about the way Kenpo has evolved? If that is too difficult to answer (or in addition), what do you think of the way Kenpo has evolved?

You will find them interesting, and they contain information that is not in Infinite Insights and allude to things mysteriously “dropped” later on from the commercial kenpo that remained in Parker’s personal evolution. I always use the “slap-check” as an example. It was never written about in any of Parker’s published work, yet was very prominent in his explosive execution.

I'll look forward to this!

My final advice, is don't think of American Kenpo as a single entity with an expectation everyone is even close to the same thing. Beyond the, what has become, the generic name, most are very different interpretations as Parker intended for most.

I think I finally understand.

I always learn something in these exchanges. Thank you for participating. We must do it again

Thank you! That would be nice. I've learned a great deal!

Respectfully,
MJ :asian: