Questions about Balintawak

[Red Blade]

This will be a series of questions to verify so of the intel that I have heard. I will start with one for now.

Why is the art called Balintawak?

 

[DoxN4cer]

Because the shop that housed the training area was on Balintawak Street, Hence the Balinkawak Eskrima Club. Eventually it bacame the name of the style of fighting taught by GM Bacon.

Tim Kashino

 

[lifewise]

Can someone (won't mention any names here) provide more information on what is involved in Balintawak? :asian:

 

[f.m.a.c.student]

Balintawak teaches stick fighters to fight to fight other stick fighters. there is alot of foot work, timing, weight transfer,positioning of your body,balance.
I not sure that I understand your question?

 

[bart]

Can someone (won't mention any names here) provide more information on what is involved in Balintawak? :asian:

Originally Balintawak was taught as a single stick only art. Some lineages have begun to include other types of attacks and double stick or stick and dagger techniques to their training. Most often this is to facilitate learning to defend against the those type of attacks. Some lineages also teach empty hands. There is an empty hand style distinctly derived from GM Anciong Bacon's Balintawak I believe called Tat Kan Tao, but I may be mistaken.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

There is an empty hand style distinctly derived from GM Anciong Bacon's Balintawak I believe called Tat Kan Tao, but I may be mistaken.

That was a Kung Fu style taught by Jogo sp. One on Bacon's students. It may have been influenced by Balintawak, but wasn't derived from it.
:asian:

 

[Joe Eccleston]

http://balintawak-arnis.com/ (Bobby Taboada's Balintawak Arnis Cuentada)


http://johnvillasin.8k.com/index.html (Jose Villasin's Balintawak International)



http://maranga.8m.com/ (Timoteo Maranga's Combat Eskrima Maranga)


http://balintawak.4t.com/index.html (Sergio Arcel's Balintawak Eskrima Club)



http://www.balintawak.com/ (Crispulo Atillo's Balintawak)


http://www.necopa.de/ (Arnulfo Mongcal's NECOPA)


http://www.balintawakeskrima.faithweb.com/new_page_1.htm (Sam Buot, Balintawak International)



http://www.islandnet.com/%7Egmzimmer/balintaw.htm (Dom Lopez's Villasin Balintawak Eskrima)



http://balintawak.s5.com/home.html (Bobby Tabimina's Balintawak Arnis)



http://www.visayanmartialarts.com/ (Henry Jayme's Visayan Martial Arts)

 

[Joe Eccleston]

I was in the same boat you're in now, Red Blade. I began training in Balintawak a few weeks ago. Here's the information I've learned thus far:


Balintawak was formed in the early 1950s in Cebu City.

The name of the club was taken from Balintawak Street in downtown Cebu City.

The two original Masters were Anciong Bacon and Jesus Cui, both former Doce Pares originals.

The original 1950s students included Timoteo Maranga, Vincente Atillo, Eduardo Baculi, Arnulfo Mongcal, Delfin Lopez, Andres Olaibar?, and others.

Later students include, Ising Atillo, Jose Villasin, Ted Buot, Teofilo Velez, Tinong Ybanez?, Sergio Arcel?, Jogo Milan?, and others. (the ones with question marks still need to be verified whether they were original or later students of Anciong Bacon)

Late 1960s or early 1970s, Anciong Bacon was sent to prison for murder.

During Anciong Bacon's absence, Jose Villasin and Teofilo Velez formed a splinter group and named it "Balintawak International" in the 1970s. Dom Lopez and Sam Buot come from this group.

In the early 1980s, Teofilo Velez formed his own group and called it "Teovel Balintawak". Key persons in this group are Teofilo Velez's three sons, Chito, Eddie, and Monie Velez, Bobby Taboada, Romeo de la Rosa, Nene Gaabucayan, Nick Elizar, and other lesser known ones.

Timoteo Maranga formed his own group and called it "Tres Personas". His son Rodrigo Maranga renamed it "Combat Eskrima Maranga".

Those who did not form their own clubs, fall under the "Balintawak Original" group. Ted Buot and Arturo Sanchez belong to this group.

Ising Atillo also formed his own group and called it "Atillo Balintawak".

Bobby Tabimina played a crucial role in the early parole of Anciong Bacon. He trained with Jose Villasin, Teofilo Velez, and Timoteo Maranga. He received further training from Bacon. His group is called "Tabimina Balintawak".

that's the summary.

 

[bart]

That was a Kung Fu style taught by Jogo sp. One on Bacon's students. It may have been influenced by Balintawak, but wasn't derived from it.
:asian:

I found my info on this site:Visayan Martial Arts. Perhaps it was simply "heavily influenced".

 

[Red Blade]

Question 2.

Who was the Founder of Balintawak?

 

[bart]

Question 2.

Who was the Founder of Balintawak?

Venancio "Anciong" Bacon.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Venancio "Anciong" Bacon.

I agree. :asian:

 

[Joe Eccleston]

the two original Masters in Balintawak were Anciong Bacon and Jesus Cui, both left Doce Pares.

this was Anciong Bacon's art, the single stick, vertical defense. Because he was tiny, and had less muscle mass, he ended up concentrating in "reading" his opponents movements, mastered non-telegraphic blows, and because of his height, perfected the inside range in fighting.

so, yes, Balintawak is Anciong Bacon's art. his main teacher was Lorenzo Saavedra, the uncle of Doring Saavedra, Doce Pares' "go to" fighter prior to WWII.



here's a 1950s photo. the three attorneys in the middle sitting are flanked by Anciong Bacon and Jesus Cui. to Anciong Bacon's right is Delfin Lopez. standing in the opposite end are Vincente Atillo and Timoteo Maranga. in the middle of this same row is Arnulfo Mongcal. standing behind Atillo and Maranga is Eduardo Baculi.

(all the info came out of this forum)

http://cebueskrima.s5.com/images/groupweb.jpg​

 

[Rich Parsons]

the two original Masters in Balintawak were Anciong Bacon and Jesus Cui, both left Doce Pares.

this was Anciong Bacon's art, the single stick, vertical defense. Because he was tiny, and had less muscle mass, he ended up concentrating in "reading" his opponents movements, mastered non-telegraphic blows, and because of his height, perfected the inside range in fighting.

so, yes, Balintawak is Anciong Bacon's art. his main teacher was Lorenzo Saavedra, the uncle of Doring Saavedra, Doce Pares' "go to" fighter prior to WWII.



here's a 1950s photo. the three attorneys in the middle sitting are flanked by Anciong Bacon and Jesus Cui. to Anciong Bacon's right is Delfin Lopez. standing in the opposite end are Vincente Atillo and Timoteo Maranga. in the middle of this same row is Arnulfo Mongcal. standing behind Atillo and Maranga is Eduardo Baculi.

(all the info came out of this forum)

http://cebueskrima.s5.com/images/groupweb.jpg​

Joe,

No Disresepct meant. Just a little curious. This is twice you have stated the Jesus Cui was one of two founding Master members of Balintawak. I am in no way throwing mudd on to Jesus Cui's character or skills. I do not doubt his skills or that he was their at the beginning.

I thought Balintawak's origin per se with Anciong Bacon, was due to the fact that he would poke/stab people with his wodden training knife while training with the Saavedra's and the Doces Pares. His training Knife was taken away and he then applied his techniques with the single stick mentality, versus the Stick and Dagger mentality. This opened up the empty hand to Manage, Moniter and Delay the opponents cane.

1) Did the same thing happen to Jesus Cui? Was his dagger taken from him by the Saavedra's?

2) Did Jesus Cui leave the Doces Pares as a good friend of Anciong Bacon's and in support of Anciong Bacons desire to teach his art?

3)

a) Was Jesus Cui the training partner and learning partner for/with Anciong Bacon?

b) i.e. While in the Doces Pares he, Jesus Cui, trained separately with Anciong Bacon just with the single stick, to refine and improve their technique?

4) Given either 3 a or b above, then does it not mean that the first student of Anciong Bacon to master Balintawak was Jesus Cui? And he, Jesus Cui, happened to be like I said a skilled Doces Pares practitioner that changed his study to that of what Anciong Bacon was teaching or working on?

Like I said, I do not discount the man's skill. I was just curious as to why you list him as the two original master's of Balintawak.

Thank You
:asian:

 

[Joe Eccleston]

hey, rich... no disrespect taken.

i'm using the title "master" similar to a 'master' painter, 'master' woodcarver, 'master' electrician, 'master' sculpture, etc. etc.

i'm sure that anciong bacon was the better fighter and teacher of the two, this is why balintawak is synonymous to bacon's name. but this is a huge presumption on my part, to further presume on this subject would be really unfair to both men since they have already passed.

both though, were recognized masters from doce pares, both left to form balintawak. so, both were already masters when they left doce pares to form balintawak... hence the 'two original MASTERS of Balintawak' phrase.

this was Anciong Bacon's art, the single stick, vertical defense. Because he was tiny, and had less muscle mass, he ended up concentrating in "reading" his opponents movements, mastered non-telegraphic blows, and because of his height, perfected the inside range in fighting.

(p.s.-- i was told that much of the judo like techniques, and knife defenses of balintawak came from jesus cui)

 

[Rich Parsons]

hey, rich... no disrespect taken.

i'm using the title "master" similar to a 'master' painter, 'master' woodcarver, 'master' electrician, 'master' sculpture, etc. etc.

i'm sure that anciong bacon was the better fighter and teacher of the two, this is why balintawak is synonymous to bacon's name. but this is a huge presumption on my part, to further presume on this subject would be really unfair to both men since they have already passed.

both though, were recognized masters from doce pares, both left to form balintawak. so, both were already masters when they left doce pares to form balintawak... hence the 'two original MASTERS of Balintawak' phrase.

this was Anciong Bacon's art, the single stick, vertical defense. Because he was tiny, and had less muscle mass, he ended up concentrating in "reading" his opponents movements, mastered non-telegraphic blows, and because of his height, perfected the inside range in fighting.

(p.s.-- i was told that much of the judo like techniques, and knife defenses of balintawak came from jesus cui)

Joe,

I take no exception to the term master. I was only looking for clarification on your resources or thought processes. And you provided that.

Thank You.

 

[Wingman]

That was a Kung Fu style taught by Jogo sp. One on Bacon's students. It may have been influenced by Balintawak, but wasn't derived from it.
:asian:

Jose Milan Go (Joe Go) originally studied white crane kung fu. He later created his own style of Tat Kune Tao. Tat Kune Tao may have been influenced by Balintawak and other stick fighting arts.

 

[lhommedieu]

(p.s.-- i was told that much of the judo like techniques, and knife defenses of balintawak came from jesus cui)

My research into the San Miguel Eskrima system of Momoy Canete yeilded the following information about Jesus Cui, which I have placed on my website (http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze4fs8i/):

"He (Momoy) later studied Combat Judo with Jeseus Cui and blended its principles with his eskrima. Jesus Cui was also versed in espada y daga (Punta y Daga) and Tapi-Tapi. He is credited with orienting Momoy towards a traditional mid- to long-range style of eskrima, in contrast to the shorter-range styles that were becoming more popular. His eskrima was sometimes referred to as the "Batangueno" style."

Any additions or corrections are appreciated.

At http://www.krishnagodhania.com/profiles/inting.html, Krishna Godhania writes:

"During the early 1950s, the Doce Pares club was experiencing a difficult period. Personal differences forced one of its original members, Venancio "Ansiong" Bacon, to separate and form his own system – balintawak arnis. With this departure many leading eskrimadors also decided to leave doce pares and follow the venerated Bacon. Among these was the expert knifefighter Jesus Cui."

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

[Red Blade]

Question 3

Did GM Bacon name a successor?

 

[Joe Eccleston]

I asked the same question awhile back. My background in the martial arts before Balintawak was in Chinese, Korean, and Japanese martial arts.

When I asked this same question to my teacher, he gave me a long speech about Filipino culture and about how lineage doesn't really play a major role in Filipino martial arts. That is until recently, when many schools became commercialized, following the East Asian "lineage" paradigm.

The answer, in short, is that Anciong Bacon never officially named a "successor". Because naming "successors" in Filipino martial arts would have been unheard of in the 1960s and 1970s.

When his students became advance, they themselves began teaching (which is how you evolve as a martial artist in Balintawak, i was told). Hence, the Villasin, Velez, Tabimina, Atillo, Maranga, Mongcal, etc etc brands of Balintawak, with Ted Buot and Arturo Sanchez preserving Anciong Bacon's teaching methods. Some have different teaching methods, some have included personal touches, but the core of the style is very much taken from Anciong Bacon. and all loyally credit Anciong Bacon for their style and philosophy.

As far as politics (since it's obvious this is where your line of questioning is leading to), various sub-groups within Balintawak actually get along very well, this is of course with some few individual exceptions due to egos. Maranga's Combat Eskrima Maranga, Teovel Balintawak Group, Balintawak Original, and others stay in contact with one another, since many of them have known each other since the 60s and 70s in Cebu.

So, in a general way, one can say that Anciong Bacon's successors are his older students, whose names we've already covered, and the newer ones like Bobby Taboada, Bobby Tabimina, and others in the late 60s, and 70s group, whom Anciong Bacon consistently "checked up" on.