Puching with Technique vs punching hard vs punching push

[drop bear]

Here's some comparison for you. Notice the effort being put into the punches compared to the effort that the instructor and I put into the punches.

Still need proof. Here's a hard hit to the stomach. Notice the force of punch knocks him back. In my video it's not the force that's knocking me back it's the pain that is knocking me back. The instructor didn't need to draw back for a power punch to move me.

Still need more proof? Look at how hard these punches are? and yet none of them collapsed like what was shown in the video. what was different? It's clear that they were punching much harder than what the instructor and I were punching. So why did the small punches hurt me so bad? Why can't the guys punching the below make their guy bend over in pain?

So while you say that what I was doing was inferior, when you look at the results in comparison and listen to the feedback in my video. Someone is definitely punching more efficiently

They are punching different people.

 

[JowGaWolf]

They are punching different people.

It doesn't matter who is getting punched or who is doing the punches because it's all about understanding the punch and force.
For example, the kid getting his stomach punched. Play the video in slow motion. Forget the kid that is getting the punch. 1st look a the kids throwing the punches. How are they generating power, what direction is force of the punch actually traveling. What is making the impact? knuckles? the flat of the hand? does the wrist bend, are elbows in or out?
The second thing is to look at the point of impact and how it affects the movement of the person getting hit. How is the person's body reacting to the punch.

Play all videos in slow motion you see that
1. All punches were hard punches, some harder than others.
2. All punches were either poorly done or done with the elbow out.
3. Some punches were done with gloves on which means that the force isn't focused upon impact.
4. The kid who was getting hit in the stomach had friends with horrible technique. Some were able to throw hard punches but it was with bad technique for efficiency of delivering force.

When you train technique, you don't focus on how strong the persons stomach is. You just do the technique, because the better you get with the technique the more efficient the punch will be.

 

[drop bear]

It doesn't matter who is getting punched or who is doing the punches because it's all about understanding the punch and force.
For example, the kid getting his stomach punched. Play the video in slow motion. Forget the kid that is getting the punch. 1st look a the kids throwing the punches. How are they generating power, what direction is force of the punch actually traveling. What is making the impact? knuckles? the flat of the hand? does the wrist bend, are elbows in or out?
The second thing is to look at the point of impact and how it affects the movement of the person getting hit. How is the person's body reacting to the punch.

Play all videos in slow motion you see that
1. All punches were hard punches, some harder than others.
2. All punches were either poorly done or done with the elbow out.
3. Some punches were done with gloves on which means that the force isn't focused upon impact.
4. The kid who was getting hit in the stomach had friends with horrible technique. Some were able to throw hard punches but it was with bad technique for efficiency of delivering force.

When you train technique, you don't focus on how strong the persons stomach is. You just do the technique, because the better you get with the technique the more efficient the punch will be.

If i hit a guy and they collapse i may have an effective punch or they may not be very good at taking punches.

You cant really tell the difference unless you have some sort of guage to go by.

 

[drop bear]

By the way i can make more people buckle with a slap from there. And it does no real damage at all. It is not really effective just horrible from that position.

 

[JowGaWolf]

By the way i can make more people buckle with a slap from there. And it does no real damage at all. It is not really effective just horrible from that position.

It's not the same. How much movement of your arm did you have use to generate enough power to make them buckle compared to the arm movement and effort shown in my videos. The punches that we were throwing weren't even fast.

 

[drop bear]

It's not the same. How much movement of your arm did you have use to generate enough power to make them buckle compared to the arm movement and effort shown in my videos. The punches that we were throwing weren't even fast.

Still different guys. They might have different tolerance to being punched.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Still different guys. They might have different tolerance to being punched.

This statement tells me you aren't examining the punches.

 

[Flatfish]

What fighting system do you train in? Punching is one of those basics that has different levels, I don't know too many schools that dive deep into the techniques of delivering a punch even my Sifu didn't go into great details. He taught us the technique, how our fist should be made and where to draw the power from. The rest is a personal journey that you have to take based on how you are taught to punch in your system. It usually starts with analyzing the movement of the punch, are elbows in or out, is the entire body being used to generate the force of the punch or is only part of the body being used. When you hit someone, what part of the fist are you actually hitting with? Is it the knuckles, the flat part of the fist made by the fingers. Are you hitting with 3 knuckles, one knuckle, or 2 knuckles? Is the punch a moving straight, upward, downward, hooking, or landing in a hammer motion. How does the arm feel when it makes the impact? How is the force traveling through the arm? Is it putting alot of stress on the shoulders, arms, elbow? Is the wrist weak and does it bend when you hit too hard? What is the best fist to make for the punch you are hitting with? Are you focusing on power when you should be focusing on technique.

The more you dig deeper into what makes a really good punch the more you'll begin to understand that there is more to a punch than just hitting hard.

I also wouldn't recommend people taking punches to the stomach like these guys did. There's just no good that can come from it. I think sometimes people forget that there are organs behind the stomach.

I train in Kukki TKD, not much focus on punching at all. But just this morning I was experimenting with throwing punches different ways at the bag and definitely found some ways that seemed better than others......too bad that darn bag can't talk. Will have to try a few things next sparring session because I actually like to punch. I'm short and often spar against taller folks, so I tend to go inside quite a bit and punch.

 

[JowGaWolf]

TKD actually has a really good punching technique. I've seen people use it at maybe 30% force bring someone to their knees using a similar technique. My partner (a different guy that took tkd) wore the protector for the torso and he said that it would have floored him had he not had it on. The technique that I'm speaking of is the one that starts at the 0:05 mark. You would have to throw a modified version of it, but it's basically the same movement, different application. When I look at it in the video hit seems to serve the same purpose which is a block with a hidden punch. The block has the biggest movement so people tend to focus on the block while the punch has very little movement in comparison but it packs a lot of force.

Just mindful that the technique may allow you to be more efficient with the punch which means it doesn't take as munch effort and force to cause a lot of pain.

Let me know how it turns out for you. Don't forget to get feedback from your sparring partner because they will let you know either verbally or by their body reaction of how effective a punching technique is.

 

[drop bear]

This statement tells me you aren't examining the punches.

How can you tell from examining the punches?

 

[JowGaWolf]

How can you tell from examining the punches?

You'll have to play the videos back in slow motion located in the youtube settings on the video.
Things to look for: (I tried to put this in the order that they come when a punch is thrown)
These are the 2 big things you can look for. I'll add the rest later on tonight after class

1. Is the person punching with elbows in or elbows out. Jabs and crosses are the strongest with elbows in. To a certain extent you can throw a hook with the elbows in up to a point. In general starting a punch with elbows out is going to be a less efficient and weaker punch in comparison to throwing a punch that starts near the center of the body and is shot out. The best way I can think of it is to visualize ice skating. The further the arms are out from the body the slower the spin, the closer the arms are to the center of the body the faster the spin. That tighter spin generates a lot of force.

This is also why these kids are flying off the small merry-go-rounds. Speaking from childhood experience you don't need a motorcycle to spin it to such high speed in order to fall of. It's possible to get the same results from manually spending it by running around it and trying to jump on. In my case as a child I did just that and wasn't able to hang on and I flew off the merry-go-round in the same manner. The larger merry-go-rounds don't have this problem because you aren't as close to the center .

In punching we can create a similar force that actually shoots the punch out smiliar to how those kids were flying out from the center. This means that these punches take less effort to generate a hard hit.

2. Take note of the direction of the force. The force of a punch will travel in a linear direction (straight light). Highly efficient punches usually means that the force goes out through the knuckles. Bad punches usually means that the force exits some where different. The common exit points for jabs are the wrist (is why the wrists collapses when hitting too hard, elbow (people who snap their elbows when jabbing or complain that jabbing hurts their elbows.) and shoulder (when the should feel like it's going to separate.). When force . To spot the direction of force look at the fist and how it lands. Does the land solid or does it scrape the target. Many people think that they are punching straight but in reality their punches are glancing punches where the force isn't traveling into the target but across it. If you jab a heavy bag and the bag spins, then the force of that punch isn't going directly into the bag. Sometimes a punch that hits a person looks like a hand sliding off the defender upon impact. This means that the force isn't going directly into the body.

 

[JowGaWolf]

#3. Take note in how the other person reacts. I say this because there are 2 things that determines if a punch is effective, The person throwing the punch and the person receiving the punch. The defender, depending on the punch, may be move into the punch and jab the punch before it reaches power. This basically messes up the punching technique and caused impact to occur before planned and it takes away the power that would have otherwise been there. The Iron shirt kid does this in his video at the 0:50 mark you can see him move into the punch. Another option is to turn on the punch this means slightly turning right before the punch lands so the punch doesn't land solid. You could also move back with the flow of the punch. So instead of trying to resist, allow the punch to move you backwards. The backwards movement works well against the punches that push. Moving backwards with the punch doesn't work well against the punch that "bite" into the body because the impact force doesn't remain on the body long enough to push it.

I also look at the distance that the arm travels. If it looks like the person is really not putting a lot into a punch but the body shakes or jerks big time then it's clear that the punch was efficient in delivering the punch. These punches are often the ones that look like the person getting hit is overreacting because the movement of the punch doesn't look like it could have generated that much force.

If you sparring partner's body makes a jerky motion upon impact then you have just done a good hit. It doesn't matter if he can take a punch or not because that motion tells you that your punch wasn't a push. On your end you'll know that you have it correct because the punch shouldn't make you tired.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Worked on punching technique today in class. We didn't use gloves but placed pads on the stomach this time. This time the impact didn't hurt like in the first video that was posted, but the energy from the impact was highly noticeable. Instead of a biting feel, it was a blunt force on the outside but I could feel something like a swirl of liquid or energy travel on the inside. The best that I can think of it was like a bullet was dancing around on the inside without the pain. Keep in mind we weren't trying to hit hard we were just using technique.

The other instructor said that he could feel the energy of my punch spread out after impact. He said he didn't feel it on the outside that it was all on the inside. Like a ripple effect in the water. As far as I know we have no internal injuries being that we weren't hitting had a 3 or 4 inch pad absorbing most of it. It'll probably be the last exercise of that type for students who have gotten that technique down fairly well. I didn't like the swirls of energy that I was feeling on the inside imagine the flight path of a bee or fly and that's the type of path that it took in my stomach, it wasn't straight like the punch. One punch sent the energy towards my spine and then turn downward (never reaching the spine).
Definitely a good learning experience, this time without the pain.

 

[Flatfish]

TKD actually has a really good punching technique. I've seen people use it at maybe 30% force bring someone to their knees using a similar technique. My partner (a different guy that took tkd) wore the protector for the torso and he said that it would have floored him had he not had it on. The technique that I'm speaking of is the one that starts at the 0:05 mark. You would have to throw a modified version of it, but it's basically the same movement, different application. When I look at it in the video hit seems to serve the same purpose which is a block with a hidden punch. The block has the biggest movement so people tend to focus on the block while the punch has very little movement in comparison but it packs a lot of force.

Just mindful that the technique may allow you to be more efficient with the punch which means it doesn't take as munch effort and force to cause a lot of pain.

Let me know how it turns out for you. Don't forget to get feedback from your sparring partner because they will let you know either verbally or by their body reaction of how effective a punching technique is.

Yeah I should clarify. Not saying that there are no effective punches in TKD, just saying that we don't put a lot of emphasis on them.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yeah I should clarify. Not saying that there are no effective punches in TKD, just saying that we don't put a lot of emphasis on them.

Understood. Maybe you'll be the person that changes that.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Understood. Maybe you'll be the person that changes that.

Then, it would change the style.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It won't change the style. There's no rule in TKD that says you can't punch more than you kick. There's also no rule that says that a punch has to be thrown 100% exactly like it's thrown in the form. In most cases in the fight you'll throw a punch with the same motion as the form but it won't look like what you do in a form.

 

[Touch Of Death]

It won't change the style. There's no rule in TKD that says you can't punch more than you kick. There's also no rule that says that a punch has to be thrown 100% exactly like it's thrown in the form. In most cases in the fight you'll throw a punch with the same motion as the form but it won't look like what you do in a form.

Actually there is a rule. (LOL) People tend to you what the art focuses on. The focus of TKD is kicks. In fact, the "K" in TKD, stand for, "Foot"; so, you get to do what ever you want, but TKD teaches you to look for kick openings.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Actually there is a rule. (LOL) People tend to you what the art focuses on. The focus of TKD is kicks. In fact, the "K" in TKD, stand for, "Foot"; so, you get to do what ever you want, but TKD teaches you to look for kick openings.

This is what I found when I looked up the meaning of TKD.
The name Taekwondo is derived from the Korean word "Tae" meaning foot, "Kwon" meaning fist and "Do" meaning way of. So, literally Taekwondo means "the way of the foot and fist"
Source: Taekwondo History

The word Taekwondo itself is made up of three Chinese/Korean words: Tae, meaning to kick or jump; Kwon, meaning fist or hand; and Do, which means "the way." Loosely (if not literally), it can be thought of as "The Way of the Hand and Foot."
Source: American Taekwondo Association | Martial Arts, Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Tae-Kwon-Do
By these definitions it would appear that punching more than kicking is perfectly acceptable. The meaning doesn't seem to suggest that you have to kick more than you punch or punch more than you kick. I just think that people got caught up in the kicking so much that they over look the importance of the punching techniques that exist in the fighting system.

 

[Touch Of Death]

This is what I found when I looked up the meaning of TKD.
The name Taekwondo is derived from the Korean word "Tae" meaning foot, "Kwon" meaning fist and "Do" meaning way of. So, literally Taekwondo means "the way of the foot and fist"
Source: Taekwondo History

The word Taekwondo itself is made up of three Chinese/Korean words: Tae, meaning to kick or jump; Kwon, meaning fist or hand; and Do, which means "the way." Loosely (if not literally), it can be thought of as "The Way of the Hand and Foot."
Source: American Taekwondo Association | Martial Arts, Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Tae-Kwon-Do
By these definitions it would appear that punching more than kicking is perfectly acceptable. The meaning doesn't seem to suggest that you have to kick more than you punch or punch more than you kick. I just think that people got caught up in the kicking so much that they over look the importance of the punching techniques that exist in the fighting system.

I stand corrected. The, "T" stands for foot. But, again, the focus is on kicking well. If you compare it to boxing, where the focus is on punching well, you will begin to see a contrast.