Problems with roundhouse kick

[TSDTexan]

Spent a while relearning mawashi geri. So as to do it correctly for this style of karate that I am now in.

Something that may or may not help.. but free advice nonetheless:

Get some stacking chairs or a pair of barstools.
Get close to a wall for support. to keep yourself steady.
(our dojo actually has ballet hand rails on one wall)

Now... the mawashi geri as i recommend has you bring the kicking leg up to hip level behind you at a about 45°.
so place your first chair or bar stool at 35° a little bit farther along your kicking arc.

Before raising the leg... pivot the supporting foot in the same direction that you are going to kick.

Now raise the leg to hip level. Engage your core muscles and swing your leg at 90° (relative) to your supporting leg.

keep a horizontal line between ball of the foot, ankle, knee hip.

When your within 10 inches of your target release the coiled energy in the leg..
(It doesn't have to be 10 inches,
You can release at any distance you feel best) Make sure that you are keeping your big toe and the rest curled up towards the top of the foot.

after full extension... retract to chamber and bring your leg to the same location you raised it up at.

now land that foot back into the starting position.

pivot the support leg and foot back to the starting position.

when you are back into front stance or zenkutsdachi

repeat.

stager your chairs or barstools across the full arc so that you have to keep your leg up and level to clear them.

go slow... 10 times.

Slow is smooth.
Smooth is fast.

 

[Bruce7]

Hi all,

I've returned to karate after a 15 year hiatus and I'm struggling with my roundhouse kick. Practice will make it better, but for some reason this kick is really eluding me. Part of the problem is that my leg is heavy and I need to build more muscle and lose some weight. However, part of the problem is that when I studied karate years ago, we hit with the top of the foot, whereas now I need to hit with the ball of my foot. It makes sense why the ball of the foot is more effective.

However, there is something about the foot position that is making it difficult for me to do the kick and I don't know why. If I angle my foot to hit with the top, I have good aim and speed and I generally feel balanced. However, if I angle my foot to strike with the ball, I have trouble getting my foot high enough and I am thrown off balance. I feel like this shouldn't make a difference. Is it related to muscle memory? I feel like my muscles shouldn't be at all conditioned anymore due to the long time lapse.

Any tips for working on the kick would be welcome. Maybe this is just an instance of doing it again and again until it's right.

I have the same problem, after 2 months it is a lot better. My side kick was fine from the beginning, but round kick did not feel right.
Since stepping behind with my non kicking leg helped my side kick. Stepping in front with non kicking leg helped my round kick. The hips made a better rotation and the timing of my leg extension was better. I would do this a lot of times and then I would do 1 or 2 normal round kicks with my front foot from a cat stance. Then go back to the step round kicks. It has helped my round kick.

If I am kicking to the body, I use the ball. If I am kicking to the head, I like to use the top of my foot. I don't know if that is right, but it works for me.

 

[Dirty Dog]

If I am kicking to the body, I use the ball. If I am kicking to the head, I like to use the top of my foot. I don't know if that is right, but it works for me.

Kicking with the top of the foot seems to allow the ankle to extend and absorb some of the impact. So I use it for sparring. Because I don't want to hurt my partner.
Kicking with the ball is for breaking. Yes, you can break with the top of the foot. But in my experience, you can break more with the ball of the foot. And the impact is more in line with the way the bones best accept impact without breaking, just as punching with the first two knuckles aligns the bones of the hand to minimize risk of injury.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The

- instep (or toes) kick is used for vertical, or 45 degree upward such as groin area and chin.
- ball kick is used for horizontal, or 45 degree downward such as belly and knee.

Both has it's value.

Kick with ball will not work for the groin kick, or the high jumping front kick.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Lift the leg like a dog peeing on a fire hydrant. Leg bent, foot chambered tight. Turn knee so it point's horizontal towards your opposite side. Turn on planted foot, allowing it to pivot, deliver kick. It can be a haisho or a koshi, same kick. Rechamber kick, set leg down. Entire body provides power.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Kick with ball will not work for the groin kick

I beg to differ.

 

[dvcochran]

I find it's very difficult to do roundhouse kick with the ball of the foot when I have shoes on. What do you think?

Depends on the shoe. If I have my work boots on I am not going to be too worried about my toes being back as I can smash with the toe of my boot. Tennis shoes are a different story.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Kick with ball will not work for the groin kick,

I beg to differ.

Do you have any clip for that?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Do you have any clip for that?

No but I'll be glad to kick you.

 

[Orion Nebula]

I just got back from class a little while ago. It's like my sensei was reading my mind (or maybe is lurking here on the forum). We did tons of roundhouse, including in sparring. It definitely went better by paying more attention to leg form and what my root leg was doing than focusing on my darn foot. Still needs work, though.

I have the same problem, after 2 months it is a lot better. My side kick was fine from the beginning, but round kick did not feel right.
Since stepping behind with my non kicking leg helped my side kick. Stepping in front with non kicking leg helped my round kick. The hips made a better rotation and the timing of my leg extension was better. I would do this a lot of times and then I would do 1 or 2 normal round kicks with my front foot from a cat stance. Then go back to the step round kicks. It has helped my round kick.

I'll give this a try. Normally at the dojo, we are traveling across the floor rather than kicking from a stationary position and often from a zenkutsu dachi when doing a roundhouse kick. However, trying it from kiba dachi like a side snap would probably work nicely.

 

[Yokozuna514]

I just got back from class a little while ago. It's like my sensei was reading my mind (or maybe is lurking here on the forum). We did tons of roundhouse, including in sparring. It definitely went better by paying more attention to leg form and what my root leg was doing than focusing on my darn foot. Still needs work, though.



I'll give this a try. Normally at the dojo, we are traveling across the floor rather than kicking from a stationary position and often from a zenkutsu dachi when doing a roundhouse kick. However, trying it from kiba dachi like a side snap would probably work nicely.

Doing roundhouse kicks (mawashi geri) from zenkutsu dachi while moving is ido geiko (moving basics). It is a good way to train the kick while strengthening the legs as you are kicking from a deeper stance than you would normally kick when you are in kumite dachi. You can also do this from kiba dachi as well but the hips will be starting from away from the target (either at 45° or 90° depending on your orientation) so getting the weight distribution properly on your foot surface will be a little more complicated. Care must be taken that you do not turn on your heels as this is not good technique (ie: If you turn the toes first before doing the kick, this is not good technique. You need to pivot on the ball of your foot). Good luck.

 

[TSDTexan]

another thing i forgot.
since its wintertime... use a heated swimming pull.
in the warm of summer a normal pool or lake etc.

do the kick while neck deep in water.
focus on form
go slow but put power into it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Likely the muscles which you use to pull the foot into the kick-with-the-ball position are weak while the muscles and tendons which resist it are stiff and short. Your deliberate focus on getting your food/leg to behave is making it difficult for you to focus on balance as well.

Practice and repetition is your most likely solution. Include a regiment of trying to point your toes toward your shin when you have down time and are sitting around at dinner or recreating.

Don't worry about it too much. Just put in the time and you'll get there.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

^^ This.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I believe that the MT roundhouse kick is superior than the Karate/TKD roundhouse kick. I like the 360 degree body rotation. It's much easier for my knee joint.

Okay, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the OP's question.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The MT roundhouse kick fits the general MA guideline that "body push/pull limbs". All MT roundhouse kick come from the body rotation. Some Karate/TKD roundhouse kick only use the leg muscle and even freeze the body.

1. Partial body move.
2. Full body move.

IMO, 2 > 1.

Also the

- Karate/TKD roundhouse kick uses a "45 degree upward (or horizontal)" power.
- MT roundhouse kick uses a "45 degree downward" power. This is much harder to develop. You have to kick much higher.

Again, I believe 2 > 1. Because you can take advantage on the full body rotation and the downward gravity force.

It all depends what you're trying to do. There are downsides to the weight commitment of a MT kick. I train both (and some gradations between).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Since 99% of the time when you need to use your kick in self-defense (or street fight) situation, you will have shoes on, I don't understand the value to train barefoot only kick? What's your opinion on this?

I know Karate/TKD guys may have different opinion on this. But should we consider to train with street clothes and with shoes on?

If you're training for defensive use (not everyone is), then you should train in your "normal" clothing from time to time, to see what (if anything) it changes.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thanks for the advice! I do have some issues with pulling back my toes in general. Even with a front kick, my big toe pulls back but the rest don't pull back nearly as far. I actually have yet to hit something with a roundhouse in class, but I am pulling my toes back just enough for the front kick. Tonight I'll try hitting something and see what my toes are up to.

That may be anatomical. Different people's toes pull back differently. Mine end up in a graduated line, with the pinky toe pulled back about 1/2 as much as the great toe. I had one instructor whose pinky toe barely pulled back at all, though his great toe pulled back a bit more than mine.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Okay, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the OP's question.

In MA, there are so many valuable skills that are worthwhile to develop. The discussion is whether the roundhouse kick with the ball is worthwhile for your training time or not. It wont' work well if you

- have shoes on.
- fully rotate your body.
- use low roundhouse kick (to hurt your opponent's leg, or as a foot sweep).
- ...

A: How should I develop the Karate ridge hand?
B: Is there any reason that you don't want to develop the hook punch (or hat-maker)?

Some discussions are worthwhile to start from the beginning.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In MA, there are so many valuable skills that are worthwhile to develop. The discussion is whether the roundhouse kick with the ball is worthwhile for your training time or not. It wont' work well if you

- have shoes on.
- fully rotate your body.
- use low roundhouse kick (to hurt your opponent's leg).
- ...

A: How should I develop the Karate ridge hand?
B: Is there any reason that you don't want to develop the hook punch (or hat-maker)?

Some discussions are worthwhile to start from the beginning.

I can't speak to the middle one, as I don't use this version of the kick for roundhouse. But you can absolutely pull the toes back in some shoes (running shoes, and even some dress shoes), and it can be beneficial to do so for some kicks. As for the third one, you're back to specifying exact cases where something isn't useful. A front kick isn't helpful for kicking to the side of the ribs when they're facing you square-on, but that doesn't matter, because you simply wouldn't try to make it do that.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

As for the third one, you're back to specifying exact cases where something isn't useful.

This is my point. If you train Karate roundhouse kick instead of MT roundhouse kick, your tool will have less function to perform.

The MT low roundhouse kick can be used to

- hurt your opponent's leg, or
- function as a foot sweep.

The Karate roundhouse kick can't be used for that function.

Does Karate "low" roundhouse kick (to hurt opponent's leg) even exist?