Post your lineage to GM Hwang Kee

Discussion in 'Tang Soo Do' started by TSDTexan, Jul 20, 2015.

  1. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master Black Belt

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    Hwang Lee,
    J.C. Shin #698
    Floyd Guidry (Osan Air Base) #4824
    Richard York
    Me.
     
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  2. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    HWANG, Kee
    LEE, Kang-Ik
    KIM, Wang (Bobby)
    VALDEZ, Charles Ray
    Me.


    Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Not TapaTalk. Really.
     
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  3. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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  4. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master Black Belt

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    Hwang Kee,
    J.C. Shin #698
    Floyd Guidry (Osan Air Base) #4824
    Richard York
    Me..... Stupid autocorrect slipped a name change in there.....

    Ed Parker wasn't a TSDMDK guy. Touch of D.
     
  5. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master Black Belt

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    Hey Dirty Dog...

    LEE, Kang-Ik, 10th Dan, Bon number # 70

    KIM, Wang (Bobby)... Did Hwang Kee ever give Bon numbers to guys who left the TSDMDK, to join Taesoodo/taekwondo Unified Kwans?

    But you got a great pedigree, and it really counts if you are still teaching combat oriented TSD curriculum, and not points in tournament TKD.

    Long after GM Floyd got his first Dan, JC Shin came to help branch and setup MDK to the USA... But politics, eventually led JC Shin to form a new Federation... And then he modified curriculum.

    Name changes dont bother me near as much as modified forms, and techniques.
     
  6. reeskm

    reeskm Green Belt

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    I have three lines, but since split from one organisation it has changed.

    If I don't consider organisations, this is the direct line:
    -Hwang Kee
    -Butch Moody-Webster (?, from Inkster, Mi circa 1975)
    -Carl Tate, Jr. (#15072)

    Until 2011 (American Tang Soo Do Association):
    -Hwang Kee
    -Richard Byrne (#14945)
    -Carl Tate, Jr. (#15072)

    2011-present (World Moo Duk Kwan General Fed):
    -Hwang Kee
    -Yong-duk Kim (#2)
    -Carl Tate, Jr. (#15072)
     
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  7. kitkatninja

    kitkatninja Green Belt

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    My lineage spans quite a few instructors and arts, so I'm only posting a snapshot of my TSD lineage (as that is what was asked in this thread).
     

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  8. Drose427

    Drose427 3rd Black Belt

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    Kee > Sok Ho Kang (My KJN) > Master Chuck Hannah (regional head instructor, my KJNS right hand man) > Master Ben Rush (SahBumNimRush was his username I believe) > Me
     
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  9. reeskm

    reeskm Green Belt

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    I believe he did, in certain circumstances, especially if he felt it might persuade someone to rejoin him or if they were promoting MDK at the time.

    At the very least, they would have received their dan bon # prior to their split with Hwang, and then kept it for life. You would get a number upon Chodan, and it would not change upon subsequent gradings, even if you staid with Hwang.
     
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  10. Muwubu16858

    Muwubu16858 Green Belt

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    Hwang Kee --- Oh Sae Joon --- Lee Jung Hwan --- Me (Michael Sabia)

    My teacher also was the nephew through marriage of Ji Do Kwan founder Yoon Kwai Byeong, who trained under Mabuni Kenwa and Toyama Kanken, and trained with him, as well.
     
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  11. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master Black Belt

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    So your teacher knows the KwanBopBu Chinese forms as well?

    The predecessor school to Chang Moo Kwan (which eventually became the Ji Do Kwan) was first called "YMCA Kwon Bop Bu" (권법무).

    It was founded in 1946 under the leadership of Byung-In Yoon at the YMCA in the Jong No district of Seoul (also sometimes romanized as Jong Ro).

    Byung In Yoon (also spelled asYoon Kwai Byeong) had previously studied Chinese Kung Fu during his 8-year stay in Manchuria.

    In 1937, Yoon enrolled at Nihon University in Tokyo, where Toyama Kanken reportedly taught Shūdōkan karate to Yoon in exchange for quanfa lessons.

    Toyama later included some of his taijiquan in his curriculum for advanced students. (That he learned from Yoon)

    Yoon became captain of Nihon University’s karate team and was awarded fourth or fifth dan (depending on the source) and a master’s certificate by Toyama.

    A little known fact is that Yoon Kwai Byeong taught Hwang Kee a number of Chinese Forms, (according to Hwang Kee himself)
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2015
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  12. SahBumNimRush

    SahBumNimRush Master of Arts

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    Hwang Kee
    Sok Ho Kang (uncertain of his dan bon, but he is listed relatively high on the Moo Duk Kwan family tree in Kang Uk Lee's book.)
    Chuck Hannah
    Benjamin Rush (me)
     
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  13. Muwubu16858

    Muwubu16858 Green Belt

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    Yoon Byung-In and Yoon Kwai Byung were not the same person. Yoon Byung-In dissapeared sometime during the Korean War, while Yoon Kwai Byung continued to teach afterward in Seoul. However, this is an easy mistake because both were 4th Dan Shihan registered in the Shudokan under Toyama. Also, Yoon Kwai Byung ran a dojo in Japan proper called the Kanbukan in the 1940s.
     
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  14. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master Black Belt

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    Wow. Actually. I know a detail or two about the kanbukan.
    If it were not for Yoon Kwai Byung "karate" would have ended post war at least on Mainland Japan.

    The US had pretty much outlawed Japanese martial arts, but korean nationals, and Okinawans were allowed free reign to do their own thing.

    In Japan he was known as Yun Heui-byeong.
    He was made headman at the Renbukan so the American Admiralty and Army Top Brass would allow the Renbukan to exist.
    Renbukan = 2nd edition of Toyama's
    “Zen Nippon Karatedo Renmei”

    The following link is very much worth a read.
    Karate, Taekwondo, crecent kicks etc. | Ryukyu Bugei 琉球武芸

    I had thought they were the same person. After
    Yun Heui-byeong’s return to Korea, he began using the name Yun Kwae-byeong

    I thought he was the same individual who went missing during the Korean War.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2015
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  15. reeskm

    reeskm Green Belt

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    As I cross-train with a local Renbukai school (in KU I might add!) here in town, I can tell you some more goodies on Yun Kwei-byung:
    - they still revere him.
    - they don't really understand tang soo do at all in the sense that they tend to lump me in the taekwondo stylists. Its very hard to tell them how many similarities there are between renbukai and the tangsoodo that I practice.
    - I now see that modern "moodukkwan" has jidokwan techniques in it. I see this because the renbukai school does almost the same thing as I do, or others do.
    - for example, the way they do junbi chase (naturally they use a japanese term) is the pull back to the hips and put the hands out in front of the groin, just like most of us do
    - i now see two junbi chase styles in moo duk kwan: the pull back to hips and push out is very jidokwan/renbukai in style. the cross arms across the body and down to the waist level is much more shotokan style.

    Another really huge interesting thing? This renbukai school, and Pat McCarthy and his KU techniques, emphasize flowing full body movements and hip rotations in every technique. Hmm, where have I seen that before? Definitely not exclusive to MDK as some think...
     
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  16. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master Black Belt

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    As of this moment, I am very much of a personal opinion that Yoon Byung-In (this has support) and Yun Kwei-byung (no evidence yet) taught Hwang Kee okinawan forms.

    Of course it could have been just Yoon Byung-In.
    But I have a Toyama tradition dojo in my town, and the Sensei does a LOT of things the way TSD does...
    Or is it the other way around?

    This and I believe instruction (Hwang Kee's) from Gogen Yamaguichi (Goju kai founder) happened in Manchuria.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2015
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  17. SahBumNimRush

    SahBumNimRush Master of Arts

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    Ki Whang KIM who was affiliated with the Moo Duk Kwan, also held dan rank in Shudokan under Toyama Sensei. Ki Whang KIM joined the Moo Duk Kwan around the same time that my KJN joined the Moo Duk Kwan. He was an early ambassador of the Moo Duk Kwan in the United States.
     
  18. reeskm

    reeskm Green Belt

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    Let's keep our posts related to our lineage from Hwang Kee? We're starting to speculate here.

    Forgive me for a slightly off topic post, but to clear up previous comments, as this thread is getting off topic, I wrote this new thread.
     
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  19. Drew Ahn-Kim

    Drew Ahn-Kim Yellow Belt

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    I need to get more information as to this from my Grandfather as I was always told the bellow was our lineage, however I've seen other people list him as a direct student under Hwang Kee. So its either:


    Hwang Kee
    Kyongwon Ahn
    Me

    or as my grandfather told me long ago

    Hwang Kee
    Jong Soo Hong
    Chong Bok Lee
    Kyongwon Ahn
    Me
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
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  20. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master Black Belt

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    Welcome Drew
     
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