Police brutality.

[tshadowchaser]

6-24-04
Police in LA filmed beating down a suspect who seems to have surrendered. It is on all the news casts. Any thoughts on this one?

 

[Tgace]

Any info. on if the subject was injured or needed medical attention??

 

[StraightRazor]

6-24-04
Police in LA filmed beating down a suspect who seems to have surrendered. It is on all the news casts. Any thoughts on this one?

"everybody knows. If the police have to come get you, theyre bringing an @** kicking with them."-Chris Rock

 

[tshadowchaser]

Only report on subject says "facial injuries"
Folm shots from Hilocopter where pretty clear. Incident now under investagation by FBI as well as internal affairs

 

[Tgace]

Only report on subject says "facial injuries"
Folm shots from Hilocopter where pretty clear. Incident now under investagation by FBI as well as internal affairs

I think they should look at the officers history and see if this is a one time thing. If it is maybe an administrative punishment. If hes a hot head maybe more.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Good thoughts .
If there is a history he will most likely get the feds realy interested.
Trouble with far range filming is you do not have the sound so we can't hear what was said , if anything.

 

[muaythaifreak]

I think "seems to have surrendered..." is the point that should be of most interest. The camera was not "right there". Therefore, the guy may have been resisting in a way that was not apparent to outside observers. Not everything is as it may first appear to be.

 

[Littledragon]

this kind of stuff doesn't happen often but I now am curious about what to do.
So my best freinds cousin was pulled over and beaten by a sheirff for no good reason(to my knowledge) and then sent home.
After I had heard about this I began to wonder what to do if this ever happened to me. You would get in major trouble if you fight back. So should you just cover up or what?
What do you do afterwards? Who do you report that kind of stuff to?

As a martial artist knowing what you could do, do not fight back. I would say go directly to the Chief Of Police in that certain city and desrcibe the situation. The best weapon in this situation is patience, humbleness, and calmness. Just relax and explain everything that happened.

Tarek

 

[Kevin Walker]

Yeah, don't fight back. You'll need yourself later to lodge a complaint. take it directly to internal affairs. They will investigate it. But be wary of people saying they were beaten "for no reason". There are more people out there wanting to cover up their own mistakes with false accusations than there are police rolling around looking for someone to beat down. Generally speaking, of course.

Unfortunately people do get beaten by the police for "no reason", and if you've ever taken the subway late at night and see the transit cops kick an unconscous wino in the head just for fun, or witness a cop beat a helpless vagrant in a dark alley just for spite, then you will realize the ugly reality that the police are not always the good guys.

 

[Kevin Walker]

As a martial artist knowing what you could do, do not fight back. I would say go directly to the Chief Of Police in that certain city and desrcibe the situation. The best weapon in this situation is patience, humbleness, and calmness. Just relax and explain everything that happened.

Tarek

If you're a career criminal or choose crime as a way of life, then getting shot, beaten, or incarcerated is just an occupational hazard.

BUT, if you're a decent and average adult male (over 35) and very good in your style, and you get attacked by a cop for 'no reason' (and it happens), then by all means defend yourself against that cop.

It is an ugly reality that you will have to face sometime as an adult that the police are not the good guys!

Cops have beefs with each other all the time. Also, EMT's and Paramedics have the largest amount of lawsuits against cops for assault & battery. Go ask a Paramedic in your city if he or she has hand any run-ins with the police, and see what they say.

Do you remember the 1970s TV episode KUNG FU, where blind Master Po is slapped in the face by a royal guard? And when the guard leans back to crack him in the face a second time, the humble & patient Buddhist monk Master Po calmly bends the guard (cop) over with a painful wrist lock and says: "Even the emperor's guard shouldn't hit an old man in the face twice!"

This also applies to the police in America today! If you've done nothing wrong, then there is no reason to allow yourself to get injured by a cop! Then, after you've successfully defended yourself, call an ambulance for the cop, then submit a complaint.

 

[Flatlander]

Then, after you've successfully defended yourself, call an ambulance for the cop, then submit a complaint.

I think you need to change the 'after' to 'if'.

I maintain that it is the primary responsibility of an officer of the Law to escalate their use of force until they win. The unfortunate truth in this circumstance is: Irrespective of the justification for the beating you may take, without a witness, it comes down to your word against theirs. This is a battle you will always lose. These officers have sworn an oath on their word, and the entire system is built upon that foundation.

 

[Kevin Walker]

I think you need to change the 'after' to 'if'.

I maintain that it is the primary responsibility of an officer of the Law to escalate their use of force until they win. The unfortunate truth in this circumstance is: Irrespective of the justification for the beating you may take, without a witness, it comes down to your word against theirs. This is a battle you will always lose. These officers have sworn an oath on their word, and the entire system is built upon that foundation.

If you're a proficient martial artist with the requisite number of street fights under your belt, the cop loses.

The ugly reality in these here United States is that the police are not the good guys, and you have a fundamental right to defend yourself against anybody! Yes, the police are liars, drug dealers, and mafia members, and being confronted by the police is no less pleasant than being surrounded by the hells angels. And if you're a decent adult not associated with criminals or involved in a left-wing or right winged protest, there is still no reason for you to be injured by a cop. And yes, you will be involved in the judicial system for a number of years with a chance of imprisonment for doing the right thing. So its a choice you will have to make, defend yourself, or live with scars on your face and conscious for the rest of your life, and allow that dangerous cop to remain in society. Life is complicated for the skilled and talented. When you make a comittment to the martial arts, you are taking on some serious responsiblities.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

If you're a proficient martial artist with the requisite number of street fights under your belt, the cop loses.

Unless he has pulled his gun on you, and you still come at him. Unless he has a partner, or backup arriving.

I completely understand that some cops are "not the good guys". Some are. I still think it is a losing proposition to take on an officer.

When you make a comittment to the martial arts, you are taking on some serious responsiblities.

I don't understand - as part of my martial arts training, I am not telling myself that I will always take someone else on. My first option in many situations is to run away as fast as possible. Another option, when confronted with an angry or violent cop, may be to flee if possible, and get to the police station where (hopefully) others will keep him or her from going after you.

So its a choice you will have to make, defend yourself, or live with scars on your face and conscious for the rest of your life,

I think everything we do marks us. I think being incarcerated would leave worse marks than being roughed up by the cops. Not a choice anyone should have to make, obviously.

 

[Kevin Walker]

Unless he has pulled his gun on you, and you still come at him. Unless he has a partner, or backup arriving.

I completely understand that some cops are "not the good guys". Some are. I still think it is a losing proposition to take on an officer.


I don't understand - as part of my martial arts training, I am not telling myself that I will always take someone else on. My first option in many situations is to run away as fast as possible. Another option, when confronted with an angry or violent cop, may be to flee if possible, and get to the police station where (hopefully) others will keep him or her from going after you.


I think everything we do marks us. I think being incarcerated would leave worse marks than being roughed up by the cops. Not a choice anyone should have to make, obviously.

I hate to paraphase from the spiderman movie, but with great power comes great responsibility. You are now dealing with some thorny issues in society that you might come into contact with. Again, if you are a decent unassuming non-criminal adult, and you are faced with an unprovoked attack by a cop (YES this does happen in America), and you are really really good in the martial arts, and you're not a Buddhist monk or something, then by all means defend yourself.

If a cop, or a hell's angel or a heroin addict, comes at you with a drawn gun, it is the same thing! Yes sir, no sir, yes sir, no sir, yes sir, no sir - but you do have an equal chance of getting shot in all scenarios. The police are not the good guys, and you need to rid one's self of a boy scout attitude toward the police before you become another statistic.

You're walking home at night, you take a shot cut through an alley, you come upon a police officer selling drugs to a pimp, they both see you, the cop attacks you. Are you not going to defend yourself?
If you're an adult male with 30+ years of martial arts experience with a bunch of street fights to your credit, yeah, you kinda defend yourself.

In the video tape of the beating, I saw a guy running from a police officer, stop, got down on his knees, placed his hands behind his head giving himself up, then got beaten. Absolutely unnecessary. Shoddy, unprofessional, and criminal conduct on the part of the police. These accounts of police brutality are happening with too much frequency to be isolated incidents. America has a police problem pure and simple.

But as an excellent and talented martial artist, all you have is the right to defend yourself - against anybody.

 

[Flatlander]

Mr. Walker, I'll have to bow out of this one. I think that perhaps you and I live in two completely different realities.

The fact of the matter is, the city in which I live has fewer than 200,000 residents, nearly a quarter of the population in a territory larger than California. Simply put, its like a big small town. Many people from rural backgrounds, and the farm blood here for the large majority runs back two generations at most. Things are pretty calm up here.

As well, much of my family is LEO, and I know many of the approximately 300 members of the local force. Though I am not LEO by profession, my culture is painted in blue.

I cannot speak intelligently on matters of which I have no experience, and it sounds to me as though you live in complete anarchy. I do not understand, given your expressed opinions, why you choose to stay wherever it is you are.

Around here, the Rule of Law is supreme.

Thank you for the discussion.

 

[Tgace]

Small Town, Mid-Size, Metro, State Police, Sheriffs, etc.....the cultures, attitudes and policies and proceedures are as varied as different dojos of the same art can be. Painting us all based on the actions of a few is as wrong as judging based on race religon etc.

 

[Kevin Walker]

Mr. Walker, I'll have to bow out of this one. I think that perhaps you and I live in two completely different realities.

The fact of the matter is, the city in which I live has fewer than 200,000 residents, nearly a quarter of the population in a territory larger than California. Simply put, its like a big small town. Many people from rural backgrounds, and the farm blood here for the large majority runs back two generations at most. Things are pretty calm up here.

As well, much of my family is LEO, and I know many of the approximately 300 members of the local force. Though I am not LEO by profession, my culture is painted in blue.

I cannot speak intelligently on matters of which I have no experience, and it sounds to me as though you live in complete anarchy. I do not understand, given your expressed opinions, why you choose to stay wherever it is you are.

Around here, the Rule of Law is supreme.

Thank you for the discussion.

Sorry if I came across too strong. I'm from Boston, Massachusetts for fifty years. Everything I have mentioned I have either witnessed or encountered first hand. There is a book written by an acquaintance of mine called: STREET SOLDIER in which he relates paying off police, lawyers and judges. I have seen this happen. The city of Boston has about a 2,000 man police force, most of whom I consider punks and losers. I would never allow a policeman in my dojo. Again, I'm sorry for this dose of reality. I believe in democracy and justice and the United States Constitution, not the rule of law. I've seen the law fail too many times. Thanks for your patience.

 

[Kevin Walker]

Small Town, Mid-Size, Metro, State Police, Sheriffs, etc.....the cultures, attitudes and policies and proceedures are as varied as different dojos of the same art can be. Painting us all based on the actions of a few is as wrong as judging based on race religon etc.

Not really. The police are consistently violent. I taught Taiho Jitsu (arrest and restraint tactics) to a midsize town police department in central Massachusetts for two years from 1972-74. Yet in all my eyewitness accounts of police violence, and documentary evidence, I have never seen police use arrest techniques other than brute force and ignorance. When I see a transit cop in Boston kick an unconscious wino in the subway, that is not an isolated incident. Or when I see a drunken state policeman throwing empty beer cans out of his cruiser into the Charles River at 6:00 am, this is not another isolated incident. Or when I go to a small northern Massachusetts town on a job interview, and while quietly waiting on a park bench for my appointment, a cop armed to the teeth and dressed like a commando verbally harasses me in a town whose major crime is a barking dog or drunk teenager, again the police are making another consistent negative impression. Until I see or hear about more police getting arrested for breaking the law, the police will always remain a threat to freedom and democracy in the United States.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Kevin

That saddens me a great deal - I have friends in the Boston area, I hate to think of a mass of corrupt (and armed!) cops who would harm law-abiding civilians.

I have a question, and I mean it in a very sincere, and non-snarky way. What would your alternative be to law enforcement in this country?

Thanks

FM

 

[Kevin Walker]

Kevin

That saddens me a great deal - I have friends in the Boston area, I hate to think of a mass of corrupt (and armed!) cops who would harm law-abiding civilians.

I have a question, and I mean it in a very sincere, and non-snarky way. What would your alternative be to law enforcement in this country?

Thanks

FM

Hi, Thank you for asking that excellent question. (By the way, I'm from South Boston, I grew up watching police whacking people for nothing, and whacking people who are jerks. The problem is that the police don't really care which is which. Do you remember last year on Tremont street when the manager of a retail store called the police because some punks were acting up in his store? The Boston Police stormed in and arrested everybody: the manager, the punks, and all the customers, saying they would let the courts figure it all out!

Police are: 1) After the fact, they arrive after the crime is committed.
2.) Are corrupt, since they frequently contribute to crime, getting rid of them would lower the crime rate. The United States has the highest crime rate in the world existing alongside the largest police force in the world. How can the two coexist if the police are effective against crime?
3.) Are violent, they frequently escalate and exacerbate a tense situation into a riot.
4.) Are hypocritical, Officer Friendly isn't friendly!
5.) Have become a state within a state, police unions frequently dictate terms to the mayor. Police have become a threat to democrary.
6.) Are undermining, registered voters have lost control of their mayor, and the mayor has lost control of his police department.
7.) and the police have become the first among equals, rules and regulations applicable to other civilians don't seem to apply to the them: i.e., police break the law to enforce the law, they shoot the shooters, they speed to catch speeders, and murder the murderers. They frequently act as judge, jury and executioner, as now commonly caught on videotape.

My alternative to law enforcement in this country would be to do away with the police altogether and institute in cities and towns a constabulary and/or a night watch. There are small towns in Maine whose city and town councils won't allow a police force. A constabulary costs half as much as a police department and is equally effective/ineffective against crime.
The night watch would consist of neighborhood patrols.

A few years ago in Boston, the Guardian Angels did a better job of crime prevention than the Boston police. They embarrassed the cops and were asked to leave.

We know who the criminals are in my neighborhood, yet can't do anything about them without getting into trouble with the police. The police are useless and are not a deterrent against crime, so its best not to waste taxpayers money on them.

I hope this helped explain my utopia, a world without police, just a constabulary and a night watch. Thanks!