Pioneertkd.com - An association dedicated to bringing the 'Martial' back into the art

[StuartA]

An association dedicated to bringing the 'Martial' back into the art of Taekwon-do.

Have a look at www.pioneertkd.com and fire away any questions you might have. This association is not looking to build into a massive association, but rather foster quality before quantity.

It is open to all styles of TKD, but the patterns/forms (which is just one part of it and revloves more around applying applications than performance styles) centre around the Ch'ang Hon set, but all styles can gain benefit from the way its set up as it doesnt want to dictate syllabus to members and uses a system called "key stages" to keep everyone on the same track.

Have a look at the membership pages for the various forms of membership, including international membership. International members is in its early stages as the association is brand new but I have put a way there to assist anyone not from the UK until such a time more clubs in their countries hopefully come on board.

I believe this is significantly different from other TKD organisations as instructors are free to have their own kup syllabus and teach what they want whilst working towards a common aim.. which is 'martial' first but still retains the 'art'. It also allows for those who wish to remain members of their current organisation but benefit from what the association offers (like senior grade group training sessions etc.)

Anyway, go have a looksee and tell me what you think.

Stuart

 

[StuartA]

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[StuartA]

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[terryl965]

Stuart let me ask you a straight forward question what is it exactly doing for TKD and how is someone here in the states going to benefot from it? Do you have members here all ready and if so where and if not how are you structuring it to be? What measure can we have that this is not just another way of people making money with nothing in return. Sorry about being blunt but I have alot of years in TKD and have trained in alot of different aspect of the Art and SD principle but I also want the competition side of the possibility for my son who would liek to make the 2012 Olympic team and your website said no affiliation with another major org. Here that would be USAT and AAU. How come someone cannot belong to all three?

I have more question but will wait until these are answered.

Like I said I like you and what yoiu stand for but some type of reassurance would be greatly appreciated.

 

[StuartA]

Stuart let me ask you a straight forward question what is it exactly doing for TKD

Its putting quality in the 'martial' area whilst keping mainstream TKD as TKD.. before giving out of black belts willynilly to bolster an organisation.

and how is someone here in the states going to benefot from it?

They benefits are by implimenting the things it mentions on the site - students grow more competent, whole clubs become martial again. As it growns they benefit from the joint training and thus keeping their own standards up, with other clubs following the same goals.

Do you have members here all ready and if so where and if not how are you structuring it to be?

Well its brand new and hasnt even been officially announced yet, but we are hoping some in the US will take it on board and join us.

What measure can we have that this is not just another way of people making money with nothing in return.

What did your current organisation offer in this respect? Still, I think it is clear.. we dont get invovlved in the kup syllabus (where most money is made from orgs), dont run comps and hold cheap group training.. plus, because we understand we cant cover all bases in these early stages, International membership is much cheaper than those in the UK + I have offered a free DVD to assist in its early phases.

Sorry about being blunt but I have alot of years in TKD and have trained in alot of different aspect of the Art and SD principle but I also want the competition side of the possibility for my son who would liek to make the 2012 Olympic team and your website said no affiliation with another major org.

No it doesnt, it says group affliation is okay, so if you feel it will benefit you its there and you dont have to leave an org - please see about the Associate membership and FAQ pages. So you son could still compete anywhere you see fit. Plus I knows theres a lot of signle clubs that incorporate more in SD than the average, but theres no group where all of them are doing that... the whole asociation - this is that group!

Here that would be USAT and AAU. How come someone cannot belong to all three?

They can... see above

I have more question but will wait until these are answered.

Fire away.

Like I said I like you and what yoiu stand for but some type of reassurance would be greatly appreciated.

You know.. I strongly believe that this is something thats needed, something for those dissillusioned with other orgs, as well as those happy where they are at except for concentrating on things like sport sparring too much and fighting/decent applications too little. I would run this for free, but we do that with IAOMAS and I devote much of my time to it, as do a few other people.. we pay for most things (web site etc.), do all the admin work etc. and others benefit greatly from it - thats fine, as thats what I wanted.

However, this time I'm not prepared to do all that admin work, pay for things etc. out of just my own pocket as the assocaition grows. Im prepared to invest a lot still, but this time its cheap but not free (just like most orgs.. except the cheap bit + I can see the association being a kind of quality seal and dont want peole joining just for the kudo's or to add another name to their ever growing list of affliations.. I want people and clubs that genuinely believe in the same things I do and want to work towards those goals also... its not about quanity or money.. its about developing quality and something that easily stands up against all others.

Stuart

 

[terryl965]

Stuart I will PM you with some additional questions and other things as well.

 

[StuartA]

Stuart I will PM you with some additional questions and other things as well.

Okay Terry, no problem/ Email me direct if you like... [email protected]

Stuart

 

[YoungMan]

The site claims that it is open to all practitioners including WTF. However, all the forms listed are ITF, and the testing format seems to be ITF as well. I have a hard time believing the inclusive part.
I think I'll stick with where I am.

 

[terryl965]

The site claims that it is open to all practitioners including WTF. However, all the forms listed are ITF, and the testing format seems to be ITF as well. I have a hard time believing the inclusive part.
I think I'll stick with where I am.

Youngman I believe it is more about traditional TKD than sport aspect of TKD. If it would benefit for those looking into all the original and ever growing SD principle behind TKD. I beleive poomsae are just that, remember TKD was a military influence way before it became a great sport. Some of us would love to see the Art side grow with the sport side, kinda like bring your brother along for the ride.

 

[StuartA]

The site claims that it is open to all practitioners including WTF. However, all the forms listed are ITF, and the testing format seems to be ITF as well. I have a hard time believing the inclusive part.

Thats right.. its based around the system I know.. however, patterns/forms are just one part, all the other parts except for individual patterns are apropriate to any Taekwonist, ITF, WTF or otherwise.. meaning that those in other styles can still gain benefit from it all.. if they wish of course. In time, perhaps there will be a WTF section to fully do the whole hog with WTF Poomse.. but how many single WTF clubs not part of a major organisation are there compared to ITF/Ch'ang Hon clubs.. this ws the original basis of it and it has grown from there.. including others is because all clubs can benefit from most, if not all, of the system and training types.

I think I'll stick with where I am.

Thats cool.. theres no onus on anyone to join.. if it stays a small collective Im happy.. if it grows into something bigger, Im happy too.

Stuart

Ps.The testing format is way more in-depth than most ITF gradings!
Pps. I guess if there were enough interested and enough expertise in that area, that there could be similar testings with WTF forms instead.. most of my contacts are Ch'ang Hon so thats where it starts - for now anyway!

 

[FieldDiscipline]

How do you intend on coping with the Coaching Certificate when it comes in? Do you intend to apply to join the BTCB?

 

[terryl965]

How do you intend on coping with the Coaching Certificate when it comes in? Do you intend to apply to join the BTCB?

Great question

 

[terryl965]

How will you handle ranking those all ready at there level, you really cannot expect them to start from stracth. So are you going to re-rank or cross rank those. If we can get alot of WTF types that want the Tae Gueks it can always be modify from one set of forms to the other.

 

[StuartA]

How do you intend on coping with the Coaching Certificate when it comes in? Do you intend to apply to join the BTCB?

No I dont intend to join the BTCB. IF (and thats still an IF at them moment) the UKCC comes in I'll do whats required, as will any other club , whether they be in an org or solo. Theres much talk about allowing it to be taken by individual groups anyway or you can take it if your insured under an organisation that isnt dictative (such as the AMA in the UK), there will be other ways Im sure as well.

Still, we are still building the foundation of the association, we are the to ensure certain practices are maintained and enforced.. that is the main concern.. in most other respects, many clubs will continue on as they do already and deal with club by club issues as & when they arise.

Stuart

 

[StuartA]

How will you handle ranking those all ready at there level, you really cannot expect them to start from stracth. So are you going to re-rank or cross rank those. If we can get alot of WTF types that want the Tae Gueks it can always be modify from one set of forms to the other.

As it says in the FAQ: We recognise all Dan grades, no demotions etc, but will only endorse (and this is the key word here) it when your practises are equal to those of the association. And before you ask, it will be either myself and/or others that deem when this is.

Think of it as wanting to be a rally driver.. we recognise the fact that you can drive a car, but you have to be able to drive it the way the rally drivers do and until then we wont endorse it.

We are not looking for guys to simply gain another certificate for there wall, in fact we wont even be issueing cross-grade certificates, but only when someone completes a grading. Ifa guy has got his 1st dan under the ITF, he remains a 1st dan, certified by them, until he takes his 2nd dan under us. He still a 1st dan however.

Stuart

 

[terryl965]

As it says in the FAQ: We recognise all Dan grades, no demotions etc, but will only endorse (and this is the key word here) it when your practises are equal to those of the association. And before you ask, it will be either myself and/or others that deem when this is.

Think of it as wanting to be a rally driver.. we recognise the fact that you can drive a car, but you have to be able to drive it the way the rally drivers do and until then we wont endorse it.

We are not looking for guys to simply gain another certificate for there wall, in fact we wont even be issueing cross-grade certificates, but only when someone completes a grading. Ifa guy has got his 1st dan under the ITF, he remains a 1st dan, certified by them, until he takes his 2nd dan under us. He still a 1st dan however.

Stuart

Thanks Stuart I appreciate everything.

 

[StuartA]

Update

I am in discussions about how this can be implimeneted for WTF schools as well. It seems the US is different from the UK (or the ITF orgs) in that WTF schools are not dictated on what they can or cant teach, so the only main difference from what I have put is the forms & the sport sparring side.. with that in mind, as long as we have instructors who know the WTF forms, then the rest is easily to impliment. Eg. Chang hon guys would perform the ITF tuls, WTF their forms, ITF guys & WTF guys would all be required to do Traditional sparring, but for the sport side they would do their respective systems.

Stuart

 

[StuartA]

The web site (www.pioneertkd.com) has been updated to equal out the membership for WTF based schools.

Stuart

 

[terryl965]

Stuart sounds fantastic.

 

[SageGhost83]

Simply awesome, Stuart. TKD needs this very badly and it is long overdue that we see more organizations that are focused towards the realistic, non-sporting side of TKD. I have visited many schools, but I can count the number of schools under the ITF on one hand! TKD needs more balance and it needs to remember what made it such a feared martial art in the first place. Thanks again!