Physicians

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by Rusty B, Oct 30, 2020.

  1. Rusty B

    Rusty B Blue Belt

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    Admittedly, I'm really shooting the breeze on this one, but I'm curious as to your thoughts.

    I was watching Terminator 2 the other day, and one particular scene stood out to me: the Terminator was taking care of Sarah Connor's wounds - probably doing exactly what a physician would be doing, given the same materials and resources - and she asks him how he knew how to do all that.

    He then responds to her by saying that he has detailed files on human anatomy.

    Sarah then asks if it was designed to make him a more effective killer, to which the Terminator confirms.

    That being said... if a young healthy physician in good shape with zero martial arts training was so inclined... could he or she use their extensive knowledge of the human anatomy to be as equally effective as a trained martial artist?
     
  2. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    In an actual fight..no. At least not based on my experience sparring with physicians without (or with some) martial arts experience. Doesn't seem to make them any better than other newcomers, except learning they pick up on some theoretical stuff quicker (which might just be a fast learner thing).

    If they were already dominating a fight, or had the other person immobile however, I'm sure they could do much more damage/more specific damage to someone's immobile body than the average martial artist. Especially if they have some tools with them.
     
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  3. Rusty B

    Rusty B Blue Belt

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    Right, in this scenario, the physicians you're sparring with are are using techniques with in the specific martial art.

    So I'm not trying to suggest that a physician can throw a punch any better than someone else.

    However, given that different parts of the body are more sensitive and fragile than others - and physicians are far more likely to know which is which - could they potentially exploit that?

    Let's say, for example, the physician in question is not a legit tough guy; but he's no pushover either. He's been in a few fights growing up, and he's won someone lost some.

    He then goes on to become a physician.

    Is he potentially more dangerous than he was before he went to med school?

    Keyword is "potentially."
     
  4. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    They could exploit it, if they were able to fight, the same way martial artists in general know which parts of the bodies are more painful to hit. But in general a lot of it is common sense so, even if they were significantly better than their opponent to be able to exploit that, it still wouldn't be much different than the average guy knowing what parts are dangerous to hit/get hit.
     
  5. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    You would still need a system and technique designed to exploit the area in discussion. Then the physician would still need to be able to use the technique and system without being countered or knocked out. I used to spar with people who were in the medical field and having that knowledge didn't make them better fighters. For the most part their interest in medicine conflicted greatly with their ability to spar. Their interest was more on helping people and not harming them. You would have to find a physician who was the reverse of that, meaning someone interested in how many ways he can harm someone.
     
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  6. yak sao

    yak sao Senior Master

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    You mean like one of those little reflex hammer thingies? ;)
     
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  7. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    No. It can help with understanding WHY something works, but having an advanced knowledge of A&P doesn't make you a better fighter. Training does that.
     
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  8. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    I think some places the martial artists and the medical men were sort of mixed together. If you use the saying if you want to learn how to break something, you learn how to fixit/make it first.

    But the validity would probbly go back to when its not as common knowledge now days where to hit. Or in debunking some of the woo pressure points.
     
  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd say he has, perhaps, some minimal edge. The issue I'm having is in your OP, where you asked if that knowledge would let him be "as equally effective as a trained martial artist". No, it wouldn't. But it could help a trained person be more effective. For an untrained/inexperienced person, he simply doesn't have the tools to use that knowledge. A simpler analogy: knowing which way a board should be cut to get a smooth surface doesn't help if you have no tool with which to cut it.

    So, an orthoped knows which joints are weak in which ways (mostly from seeing the inuries), and could exploit that if he knows how to attack them with strikes and grappling.
     
  10. Kemposhot

    Kemposhot Orange Belt

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    I tend to agree with many of the above posters. I’ve trained with a physician for many years who is an excellent martial artists, as are his 2 children who also train.

    Aside from chiming in every so often on specific damage a particular move or strike causes he doesn’t bring it up as much. In fact, I’ve often seen him defer to other students with backgrounds in policing or corrections when talking about actual combat applications of particular moves.

    I would note however, that his advice on stretching and improving flexibility has always been top notch and that is definitely a result of his experience and training as he referenced it when giving advice.
     
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  11. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    We train with a vet. She is really good for spot stitching cuts and getting us dodgy X-rays.

    I don't know if the medical knowledge has made her any more lethal.
     
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  12. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Most physicians probably wouldn't automatically translate their medical training to effectively damaging someone in a fight in any special way. The most effective targets in a real fight vs. a resisting opponent are not esoteric pressure points. They are pretty well known ...at least to anyone who ever practiced a fighting art or sport.

    My dad, a retired MD, now age 95, liked to say: "If you gotta fight, hit 'em first, hit 'em hard, square in the nose. A good shot in the nose takes a lot of the fight out of most guys. If it doesn't, then you know you've got your hands full!" I later found out he did some boxing in the Navy during WWII so maybe he knew something.

    Then again he was an ENT ...a nose doctor. So maybe he was just drumming up business! :D
     
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  13. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I imagine they'd use their skills not to fight, they could use meds instead so they could kill with impunity. We recently had a doctor here who did that, Shipman No one knows actually how many people he killed.
     
  14. john_newman

    john_newman White Belt

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    From my standpoint, it is not necessary to have complete knowledge about the anatomy of the body but in the same way, a fighter would be more dangerous if he knew the all soft points of a body.
     
  15. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    I'm sure it does, but to maximize her advantage, she's not letting on how much. Like the kung fu masters of yore, surprise is a big part of it. Surprise... and fear. And ruthless efficiency.

    And an almost fanatical devotion to the pope... err.. I mean, the master.
     
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  16. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Wasn't there a guy in Germany doing the same thing? Horrible.
     
  17. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    We've just had a nurse arrested for killing babies in hospital too, not many details until the trial but she got away with it for a long time.
     
  18. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    That is heinous.
     
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  19. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Unfortunately, we can't yet reliably identify people with this kind of pathology. Frighteningly easy for them to get into positions to do this kind of thing.
     
  20. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    I am, frankly, shocked to learn that serial murder by healthcare professionals is a LOT more common than I had ever imagined. I am even more shocked to learn that they often see it as humane euthanization. It's amazing how people can get twisted around to rationalizing atrocity.123
     
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