O'Reilly -Tides prove God!

[billc]

I heard an interview with someone who studied Columbine and the shooter. The leader wasn't a victim of bullying but was more along the lines of wanting to be famous. He wrote that the one of the things he hated most was stupid people. The other guy was more along the lines of the follower. ONe expert posited that the kid suffered from megolamania.

 

[SensibleManiac]

We cannot measure, predict or test for such a being-therefore the scientific method cannot be applied. If we posit that such a being paradoxically exists both within and without our space/time,we still clearly lack the means to measure, predict or test for such a being. And, as far as direct experience of such a being goes, such experiences are, by definition, subjective, and-more to the point-not disprovable , however duplicable they may or may not be-though they usually are not.

Of course, you have the right to apply reason to understanding anything, and one can certainly use science to investigate certain things: archaeology to investigate the various religions of the world, or medicine for so-called “faith healings.” A lot of interesting work on religious experience that people associate with “god” is being done in neuroscience.vBut there is no room, as yet, within the scientific method for an investigation of “God.”

The tools and metrics for measuring, testing and predicting simply don’t exist.

This does make sense until the "and-more to the point-not disprovable" part.
The problem is that once something is "not disprovable" as you put it, it becomes irrelevant.
So this God put us on earth to believe in him and yet he made sure that there was no way we could have any way to truly understand him.
It doesn't add up, why would this God care if we believed in him or not, surely he wouldn't care. Is the belief in him for our benefit only?
If so why are most people who believe, (and notice here I said most) ignorant when it comes to logic and understanding and even compassion?
I say this because the more ardent the believer, the greater chance they are closed minded to the world around them.
When you think of fundamentalists, do you think of very logical people?
A study was done where brain activity was measured in people discussing their political and religious beliefs and you know what was found? Most of the activity was happening in areas of emotion and not reason, even though they claimed they were thinking logically about what their views.

As for the no room for the scientific investigation of God, if no other evidence can be found in these studies than what is occuring in the mind, is it not safe to say that it is occuring only in the mind?

I invite you to read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot
on Russell's teacup analogy.
It is interesting.

From a logical perspective, if God does not want us to be able to have evidence of his existence, is it logical to claim that he exists or wants us to acknowledge him?

It is a valid question.
Especially when we see how believing in anything with lack of evidence is not only dangerous but does nothing for human progress especially if it sidetracks us from further understanding the workings of the mind.

 

[elder999]

This does make sense until the "and-more to the point-not disprovable" part.
The problem is that once something is "not disprovable" as you put it, it becomes irrelevant.

I was speaking of direct experience. If an individual has experiential evidence of "God," it's not disprovable, not duplicable, and therefore not testable.

It is, however, empirical evidence of lasting relevance to them, and that's all that should matter.

 

[Archangel M]

Atheism really doesn't come with any emotions attached. While you do have some kids who are angry at "God" and want to backslide(or whatever you call it)
They are not considered atheist, since they are "angry at God" in the first place. While Atheism is the belief of God not existing. So it's really hard to find someone to kill in the "name of Atheism"

I don't think that they are "angry at God". But some of them sure seem beligerant towards people who believe in God.

Don't confuse "killing in the name of Athiesm" with a rationale for eliminating religion for social/political reasons.

 

[SensibleManiac]

The "religion killed more than atheism (Stalin, Pol Pot, etc) is a diversion from the original statement that Atheists mind their own business and "I care less if you believe or not" blabber for up thread. I "believe" that many Atheists do indeed care what I believe, otherwise they wouldn't spend so much money on billboards, or time on the internet arguing who killed more people than who.

I think the billboards are more of a backlash to the extreme religious billboars that have been popping up as of the past few years.
Trying to use fear to bring others into submission no longer works very well, I think pushing people to think is much more effcetive and much much better an alternative to bringing progress.

I can speak for myself here but I'm sure many others feel the same way.

We are getting close to a period where weapons of mass destruction can easily fall into the wrong hands, furthermore we are about to see a point in time where technology will begin advancing at a tremendously rapid rate.
The cause for alarm is that with many people on this Earth having irrational beliefs, this poses a huge threat to not just our progress, but our planet and humanity itself.

I'm not speaking of any one particular religion but I feel it's time we all started thinking more rationally.
I think of it as a means of survival and self defense.

The push for rationality is never a bad thing.

 

[Carol]

I'm not speaking of any one particular religion but I feel it's time we all started thinking more rationally.
I think of it as a means of survival and self defense.

Can't argue with that logic.

I keep seeing the "Sensible" part of you SensibleManiac. Not sure where you hide the maniac part

 

[SensibleManiac]

I keep seeing the "Sensible" part of you SensibleManiac. Not sure where you hide the maniac part

You'd have to see me hit a punching bag!

 

[billc]

So Sensible, you probably don't want Iran to get a nuclear weapon then.

 

[SensibleManiac]

Noooooooooo kidding!

Definitely, we need some way to end nuclear proliferation.

This is a tough one though.

They way things are headed many countries will eventually aquire the types of technology that they shouldn't have access to.

 

[Big Don]

 

[Blade96]

More have killed in the name of atheism, than religion. Scientific socialism, is that what those camps were for? the atheists killed for "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need," because religion is the opiate of the masses. Some of the greatest scientists in the world, explored the nature of the world to understand God and how he made things work. The murder of abortion doctors is the act of a lone religous extremist, the creation of gulags, and death camps is organized atheism at its worst, and they kill millions at a go.

oh not again

 

[Ken Morgan]

Sigh.

Folks there have been in recorded human history, (hence maybe .5% of our existence), 2900 “gods” documented on record somewhere. Some of these gods are mentioned once in passing on an ancient script, or are represented by a single petro glyph carved on one stone door deep in the jungles of X, or there are the Christian, Muslim, Hindu and a handful of other religions that have been recorded billions of times on a multitude of media.

We are all atheists, every single one of us when it comes to these other gods. A christian/muslim/jew does not believe in 2899 of these gods, hence they are by definition atheist, about those gods.

Of course the obvious questions arise, as to why is one god/religion hold great validity then any other? How do we “know” our god, or religion is the “true” faith? Why is everyone else wrong? These are questions you need to answer to your own personal satisfaction.

I believe that we all need to be more tolerant about other religions or lack there of, political beliefs, race and a hundred other issue, it will make the world a better place.

 

[Empty Hands]

Of course the obvious questions arise, as to why is one god/religion hold great validity then any other?

Excellent question - particularly considering that the greatest predictor of which religion you follow is which religion you were raised in. If God was actively shepherding people to the "correct" religion, you would think that you wouldn't simply believe what you were raised to believe but would be drawn to the right one.

 

[Blade96]

oh not again

wanted to clarify on my post some more. I just meant that Bill has already said that. Just a little dejavu .

 

[Nomad]

Sigh.

Folks there have been in recorded human history, (hence maybe .5% of our existence), 2900 “gods” documented on record somewhere. Some of these gods are mentioned once in passing on an ancient script, or are represented by a single petro glyph carved on one stone door deep in the jungles of X, or there are the Christian, Muslim, Hindu and a handful of other religions that have been recorded billions of times on a multitude of media.

We are all atheists, every single one of us when it comes to these other gods. A christian/muslim/jew does not believe in 2899 of these gods, hence they are by definition atheist, about those gods.

While your post makes a great overall point, it's technically incorrect. An atheist is defined as someone who doesn't believe in any god, not just anyone else's god.

So strictly speaking, someone can't be an atheist to everyone else's gods (if they believe in their own). In other words, please don't lump everyone else in with us atheists... we like to think we're special

 

[Blade96]

ok people are talking about beliefs....I'd like to go on record as saying I've had some pretty weird crap happen in my life so I'm open to the possibility of angels, gods, spirits, the after life, whatever existing. so i call myself agnostic.

 

[Ken Morgan]

ok people are talking about beliefs....I'd like to go on record as saying I've had some pretty weird crap happen in my life so I'm open to the possibility of angels, gods, spirits, the after life, whatever existing. so i call myself agnostic.

And the Great Pumpkin, don't you dare forget about the Great Pumpkin!!!

 

[granfire]

And the Great Pumpkin, don't you dare forget about the Great Pumpkin!!!

butbutbutbut

it's the Easter BEAGLE!!!!

 

[Carol]

And the Great Pumpkin, don't you dare forget about the Great Pumpkin!!!

I believe!

 

[Big Don]

I believe!

Those look like the Mediocre Pumpkins to me, Carol...