"No Outside Game," or Another Thread About Hybrid Arts

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by wingchun100, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Hmm...with the question mark, I can't decide whether to like or dislike...
     
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  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    So it is BJJ in a running race vs kung fu. Well that is an interesting style vs style.
     
  3. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, I wasn't actually thinking style vs style. Only that it's easier to take off running from an upright position than from a prone.
    Unless there's a BJJ hold that puts you in a position like the starters blocks for a sprint?
     
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  4. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Turtle.
     
  5. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Aren't you kind of tangled up with another person at that point, though? Might make launching a little slower than ideal...
     
  6. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    [​IMG]
     
  7. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Dude, you're stuck in victim mode. Whining and wringing your hands about how everyone is so mean to you. Snap out of it. You're seeing what you want to see, and when someone points it out to you, you whine and cry even more.

    yes. It was called for. I'm shocked you don't hear it from someone every day, if that's how you go through life.
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    I love it. And I'm glad you still have the Walkman. Was it one of the big, cassette tape ones?

    And just to be clear, which martial art helped you? Being serious, I'd like to see real data on crimes, or attempted crimes, whether the person trained something they believe helped them in the situation (whether martial arts, parkour, crossfit or whatever) and if so, what. My theory is that we would learn that training in any martial art, whether BJJ, tkd or whatever, has minimal real effect.
     
  9. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    On the ground, I don't think I can move this fast as this guy did.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. KangTsai

    KangTsai 2nd Black Belt

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    But the thing is, distance is such a mundane and simple concept that 'purity' of a martial art is not at stake here. It's not do a 'long ________ ,' it's just do a '_______' from arms length.
     
  11. yak sao

    yak sao Senior Master

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    Now that is funny.
     
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  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    A bit harsh, Steve.
     
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  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    This is probably another of those circumstances where good statistics simply aren't going to be available. Given the relatively small number of multiple-attacker incidents, the relatively small number of martial artists (in the population), and the way such things are (and are not) reported, the best we can probably do is draw reasonable conclusions.

    The primary reason for training against multiple attackers (at least in NGA) is to learn to navigate through and around them. If there are only 2 (as if that's an "only"), then a fighter may have a chance to defeat both if he/she outclasses each one individually or just gets lucky and finishes the first one very fast. Beyond that, if running is an option, then it's the best option. Since the defender will be fueled by the fear of death, they will probably have a larger adrenaline surge than the pursuers, which will be enough if he/she is reasonably fit, reasonably fast, and has somewhere to run to. If that "somewhere to run to" isn't an option, then fighting may be all that is left.
     
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  14. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree that it's not a question of purity. However, there are many _____ that don't belong at arm's length. An elbow blow can't happen at arm's length, nor can an Elbow Chop (mid-range NGA technique), nor a Slap to the side of the Head (close range NGA technique). You have to enter or draw your opponent in for each of those to be executed. To me, that entering/drawing movement is separate from the technique itself, and is part of controlling the distance.

    If an art's principles are built around power generation at square (this is a hypothetical art, though it might apply to some like Wing Chun...don't know), then strikes much beyond square would violate the principles of the art. If the power generation is entirely around square, extending the shoulder forward to gain reach (in any method) will destroy that power generation base and render a nearly useless strike. It's then time to examine whether that's a big enough hole that the art needs a change in principles. If not, then you leave it, and those folks who want those longer punches can learn them elsewhere. If the hole is too important, then you start adjusting the principles of the art to make room for some appropriate long-reach strikes.
     
  15. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Ah the Walkman! Player of cassette tapes! Bringer of tunes to lighten the soul! I have such fond memories of that artifact from a bygone era. That small bit of technology with which I was able to break the tedium of my day, that I purchased with the pennies and sheckels I managed to scrape together...that formidable tool with which I was able to stave off the creeping madness that threatened to overtake my existence! Well it did serve me well but I am afraid it did die a noble death after a distinguished career. It lays now at the bottom of a trash heap in some forgotten corner of some forgotten landfill.

    My Nike Jitsu did show its prowess that fateful night, and opened the way for my newly-purchased Walkman, that faithful companion, to serve me so well in the days and months and years to come.
     
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  16. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    But true. Who can take all the whining?
     
  17. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Would sure put a lot of myth to bed if we could get some actual information, instead of conjecture.
     
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  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I have legitimately used multiple attackers against a lot of guys.
    That is one of the major dynamics that makes bouncing work.

    Otherwise you could test it. You just spar a heap of guys. Which i have also done.
     
  19. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    It would, but we'll probably have to settle for case studies, given the low population for statistical purposes.
     
  20. Transk53

    Transk53 The Dark Often Prevails

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    Steve likes to be a bit grouchy. Doubt any answer would be sufficient :D123
     

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