Master Wong - Legit?

[wingchunguy]

I trained several, including Shaolin, and tai chi. Traditional wing chun IS complete. It has stand up, locks and throws, weapons, and anti-takedown and anti-grappling techniques that use the ten concepts, which are very effective. To ME, that is a complete system!

 

[wingchunguy]

I have trained several, including Shaolin and Tai Chi. Traditional wing chun IS a complete system that includes stand up, locks and throws, weapons training, and anti-takedown and anti-grappling techniques (those are ground techniques for those of you who don't know) that use the ten concepts and are very effective. To me, that makes it a COMPLETE SYSTEM!

 

[wingchunguy]

That's because Master Wong does Pan Nam wing chun, a vietnamese version of wing chun, which is similar to the Ip Man version, but has some differences. Master Wong has very good tutorials to learn the APPLICATION SIDE of wing chun, but like I said before, be forewarned. He also does JKD and modified wc. Use the ten concepts as your guideline. If it falls within the edicts of the ten concepts, then use it. If not, like Bruce Lee said, discard it, it is NOT wing chun.

 

[wingchunguy]

Yes, he is very good, but does PAN NAM wing chun, the vietnamese version of wing chun. It is similar to Ip Man's version, but there are distinct differences. But be forewarned. He also does JKD (A second-rate system in my book), Kali and modified wc. Use the ten concepts as your guideline. If it falls in the edicts of the ten concepts, then use it. If not, then discard it, it is of no use to you. I would learn the Ip man version because there is a lot more information on it than the pan nam version, so you will learn it more completely (As long as it's TRADITIONAL, then it's complete). There are a lot more tutorials to learn from (See chinaboxer's tutorials, they are the BEST for a beginner to learn the basics, or TECHNICAL SIDE of wing chun.), and other teachers that have tutorials. I would recommend Master Wong only AFTER learning the basics, then you can go to his website and learn the APPLICATION side of wing chun. I again would also recommend other tutorials from people like Master James Sinclair, Master Allan Gibson, Phillip Redmond, and even Master Watts and Sifu Wayne Benonha of the Moy Yat lineage. They both have fine tutorials, especially Sifu Benonha, whose techniques are sublime (You may need some coffee, though, because his voice is so soothing, you may drop off to sleep.LOL) just disregard that crappy 70/30 stance they use, it is not traditional.

 

[wingchunguy]

Ok. I've had a request to explain the ten concepts. I will give you the explanation from the piece I wrote after only 8 months of doing wing chun. Ready?

Wing Chun's Ten Basic Concepts and their use

The ten concepts are the guideline for wing chun kung fu. They dictate how wing chun is properly used in a self defense situation. It is, if you will pardon the expression, the "bible of wing chun". Wing chun is the only concept-based martial art. All others are commonly known as a technique-based martial arts. That means that the techniques dictate the response instead of the situation making the response rigid and unflexible. This will cause a problem if the situation is unfamiliar to the person because he will not know how to respond, causing him to have to consciously THINK about it, severely slowing down response time. This slowdown may cause a breakdown in your defenses because the attacker may overwhelm you and you might not have the time to counter.
In wing chun, we use ten concepts that not only dictate proper procedure, but also give us the basic principles that fill in flaws seen in other styles. For instance, in karate, boxing, muay thai, or any derivative that uses some kind of a boxing stance, there are flaws like not keeping the hands in the center, not protecting the centerline, standing sideways in their stance compromising balance and power, they expend loads of energy (The opposite of wing chun's economy of motion concept) by doing inefficient things like bobbing and weaving, and bouncing on their toes. These are all flaws that have been fixed by the ten concepts. If done properly, wing chun should HAVE no such flaws in it (except, of course, the human flaws added). The object in wing chun is to close the distance by controlling the opponents’ distance and timing through initial contact and footwork. This is done when first contact is made through a defensive move done to your opponents first attack (usually a punch, but it can also be a kick, high or low, it doesn't matter.) and you redirect it with a technique that either breaks through the center, causes your opponents hand to move outside of HIS center, causing an opening, or by you rotating and stepping into the now open area that was made when you first redirected his shot. You have to also control his rhythm and make his rhythm, yours. Again, this is done by contact and forward stepping after every contact, closing the distance until you are in a close enough range (close combat range, about 2 to 4 feet from your opponent, preferably to his outside gate or blindside and facing him squarely.) to counter with ease and safety (this is also VERY IMPORTANT!). You want to be able to counter and not worry about him being able to hit you. You do this when you step in on a 45 degree angle and rotate your body. You avoid his punch by your movement, but you also avoid his COUNTER that way, too. This is also how you would counter against someone who is a kicker. You don't even have to bother to block. Just enter with your hands up, like I said before, at a 45 degree angle, rotating your body. The fact that you are coming in will make his kick ineffectual because he needs that distance to produce power. Or you can kick his leg or jam his kick with your foot if it is a low kick. You are jamming him so he will not be able to produce that power. Plus, you are rushing in, and if he kicks you in the thigh, you will push him backwards, off balance (Because he is standing on one leg) because you are moving forward (Another wing chun concept). You will be facing him squarely (Also a wing chun concept) and he will looking forward (think of it as a "T" with YOU as the top of the "T", and HIM as the bottom of the "T"). This will allow you to control one hand, positioning your foot next to his (to sense if he is about to kick, knee or move) and counter strike with rapid-fire punches (THIS is the appropriate way to chain punch) and/or kick or sweep the opponent to the ground, again maintaining control of the arm (You ALWAYS try to control one arm) and pummeling him to unconsciousness.
THAT is the correct way to do wing chun! Now, here are the ten concepts with a small explanation of each one. You should learn them, and follow them, using it as your guideline as you begin to spar, then fight.

The ten concepts are as follows:
1. Economy of motion- This concepts dictates that the wing chun practitioner use as little energy as possible when doing the techniques. This means taking out any extraneous (unnecessary) movements to make the technique as streamlined and efficient as possible. This will increase your speed and power. It also dictates that you should try to end a confrontation as quickly as possible.
2. Centerline concept-This concept dictates that all major organs lie along the center of the body. This area is the most vital area on the body. So these vital organs should be protected from attack and attacked on your opponent. By attacking these vital points, you are also incorporating other concepts, making your attack more effective. This is why you must use all ten concepts together.
3. Triangle concept- The triangle is the strongest structure known to man. Energy flows down the tip evenly along the sides to the base. It is also the most efficient structure. We use this concept to maximize power through the use of concentrated energy, which gathers at the apex of the tip. (Where the three points meet). You can only generate so much power when using muscle contractions. This allows the body to align itself so the maximum amount of power can be generated. In wing chun, YOU MUST NEVER BREAK THE TRIANGLE!! THIS IS CRUCIAL IN WING CHUN! If you break the triangle, then other muscles that shouldn't be brought into play come into play and slow down your response (called antagonist muscles, like the bicep). So you must keep the triangle in your stance (Which means the pushing in of the hips and knees.) This will help you get a better push off also because now you are using the WHOLE foot to push instead of just your heel and part of the outside foot. Always push the hips forward, maintaining that position when static or moving. This will make a complete connection making your stance extremely strong against attacks, even grapplers) and NEVER, EVER break the triangle when you punch. This will cause you to overextend your position and unbalance you, causing you to be possibly pulled or pushed down, and consequently open up your center for counter attack. Even our footwork is a circle inside of a triangle. Always maintain it and you will maintain the integrity of your stance and increase your power base because now you have a better push off with your legs.
4. Simultaneous attack and defense-This concept dictates that, in accordance with other concepts like economy of motion, and others, like trapping hand and straight line attack, that each move should have both elements in it. This means that instead of just blocking and THEN attacking, we, in wing chun, do BOTH, AT THE SAME TIME! This has the effect on the opponent of having him go into a defensive mode, causing him to use physical strength and an ineffective counter attack (It's hard to counter when you are getting pummeled by 6 to 8 punches or more a second) that will cause him to make an opening in one area to cover the hole in another. This is the time that dictates in wing chun that you ATTACK that opening just created and continue until the opponent is no longer a threat.
There is a saying in wing chun by Gigung Wong Shun Leung, and it goes like this:
Loi Lau Hoi Sung, Lat Sau Jik. This translates to the following edict:
Loi Lau- This means to "engage the enemy, stay with them and form a bridge with the attack, intercepting the path it takes."
Hoi Sung- This means to "take advantage of their errors, following their mass of center when they withdraw, attacking the opponent without worries."
Lat Sau Jik- This means when the hands are released, ATTACK DIRECTLY WITHOUT HESITATION! (Very important!). All this information is in the book by Master Allen Gibson called Beginning Wing Chun.
5. Bridge Hand Concept-The concept of using sensitivity through contact to sense your opponents intentions even without looking. This helps free you for other things like strategy. It is used in medium range to close the gap to close combat range or in close to stop an attack when there is contact made. This sensitivity is honed by doing Chi sau for your hands (known as sticky hands) and Chi gerk for your legs (also known as sticky legs), which uses the same concept of detecting attempted movement in your opponent's legs.
6. Straight line Attack Concept- This concept dictates that all strikes will be either directly down the center or central line (45 degrees off the center line) when either your hand or your opponents is pushed or pulled off center, causing an opening in his position. Again, going along with several other concepts that work in unison with this one (economy of motion, centerline concept, triangle concept, face to face concept, trapping hand concept, and simultaneous attack and defense concept, bridging the gap, and immoveable elbow. All ten concepts are used here.), the straight line attack concept also dictates that if one hand is pushed out of center, the other hand comes to the center to take its' place, protecting the centerline. It also states that if a punch is redirected or blocked off center, the elbow continues through the center (turning into a bong sau, effectively trapping the arm, which is jut saoed (Grabbing block) with the back hand or wu sau hand, then the elbow (bong sau) is turned up into a fist and continues along the centerline. If the ELBOW is stopped, then the shoulder can be used to get distance between the two participants and then you can reset your stance.)
7. Immoveable Elbow Concept- This concept dictates that the elbow remain immoveable behind the arm. It can move up and back in front of the body, but NOT side to side. This sideways movement causes the body to use the muscles of the body, causing tension to the muscles and fatigue, instead of body alignment and body movement, which causes the techniques to weaken and fold under pressure which will cause a collapse of your defenses. It also lines up the three sticks (the arm, forearm and wrist, which is VERTICAL, instead of horizontal), with the body and allows you to produce amazing amounts of power in a short distance (3 to 6 inches or LESS).
8. Trapping Hand Concept- This concept dictates that, in order to control your opponent, you must trap one or both of his hands, preferably with just ONE of yours, using the other hand to strike and/or kick or sweep. This gives you the ability to safely control your opponent and attack simultaneously (also uses concept of simultaneous attack and defense, centerline theory, economy of motion, bridge hand concept, straight line attack, immoveable elbow, and the face to face concept).
9. The Four Corners Concept- This concept is the determining factor when it comes to the area protected by each hand. It separates the body into four sections, left and right upper gate, which protects the face, neck and upper torso, and the left and right lower gate, which protects the middle portion of the body, the ribs, stomach, and even the groin. It is also the determining factor to the boundaries our hands must stay within to be able to protect the center. We do not go past these gates, whose outside borders are the end of the shoulders.
10. Face to Face Concept- This concept is crucial in wing chun also. It dictates that a wing chun practitioner must always stay SQUARE TO HIS OPPONENT, facing him forward directly. This gives the wing chun person an advantage. When you stand square, you are protecting your groin from a kick (the turned in knees help also) and from a leg sweep, which you are vulnerable to when you stand sideways. It also gives you the advantage of being able to use both hands and legs when you are in the neutral position, and both hands and one leg when you are in the side stance. This is better than all others, that use only one hand and leg when standing in the side stance. You also have better balance, more stability, and there is less chance of someone getting around behind you when standing square. You are also more grounded which gives you more power in your techniques. This allows you to use all the other concepts more efficiently and effectively. This is why I say you must use ALL TEN CONCEPTS, ALL THE TIME! As you can see, they all rely on each other, like a machine. It's like having an engine with missing pieces after you put it back together. Without all the pieces, it won't work well or at all.

 

[wingchunguy]

For all of you out there that question Master Wong, let me clarify something. He was taught PAN NAM wing chun, which is a vietnamese version of wing chun. For those of you out there, there are literally one dozen different styles of wing chun, ranging from Ip Man's version, to Pan Nam, to all the FLAG wing chuns (white, black green, red,yellow) that isn't even REAL WING CHUN because it uses the five animal system as opposed to the crane and snake in Ip Man's version. So I can understand your confusion. But Master Wong also does modified wc, JKD, and Kali, so when you use his tutorials, make sure to use the ten concepts of TRADITIONAL wing chun as your guideline (IF you are learning Ip Man's version). If it falls under the edicts of the ten concepts, then use it. If not, then discard it, it is not TRADITIONAL wing chun.

 

[jks9199]

Wingchunguy...

Perhaps you'd consider making use of the "Reply With Quote" option? (It's at the bottom right of each post, and looks kind of like a cartoon speech balloon with quotation marks in it) It's really hard to understand what you're replying to in each post since they're not necessarily displayed right in a row.

 

[geezer]

Wingchunguy --please take note of the previous post by jks9199 (post #67). Your failure to reference exactly to whom or what you were responding made reading over your recent posts not only confusing but also about as annoying as listening to somebody shouting into their cell phone without hearing a word of what the other person is saying. Hearing half a conversation just doesn't contribute much.

Now about your wall of text on the "Ten Concepts"... it is actually all very familiar. You might be surprised to learn that those ideas are not the exclusive property of TWC. I understand that you are devoted to your instructor and lineage. So are many others here, but we come to this forum to share and learn, not just to preach!

 

[yak sao]

.....we come to this forum to share and learn, not just to preach!

Amen brother!..........sorry couldn't resist

 

[blindsage]

"traditional", such a funny word.

 

[almost a ghost]

"traditional", such a funny word.

And a very loaded one.

 

[wtxs]

"traditional", such a funny word.

And a very loaded one.

Would it be an stretch to interpret it as "full of it"? :wink1:

 

[Marnetmar]

I do believe that the fact he's skilled in wing chun is undeniable, though the title of "master" seems a bit suspicious.

I actually talked with my sifu about him and he brought up the video in the OP, mentioning that once a boxer sees an elbow he will change his strategy so as to avoid damaging his hand.

 

[geezer]

I do believe that the fact he's skilled in wing chun is undeniable, though the title of "master" seems a bit suspicious.

Are you talking about William Cheung? Heck I'd go along with the term "master". Now "grandmaster" is pushing it, but what the heck, these days even "Grandmasters" are a dime a dozen.

Similarly, my old sifu adopted the titles "professor, doctor, grandmaster", as well as "master of almightyness" LOL. Don't these guys realize how absolutely ridiculous this sounds?

His kung fu was actually quite exceptional, but by assuming such absurd titles, he sure lost a lot of credibility.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Are you talking about William Cheung? Heck I'd go along with the term "master". Now "grandmaster" is pushing it, but what the heck, these days even "Grandmasters" are a dime a dozen.

Similarly, my old sifu adopted the titles "professor, doctor, grandmaster", as well as "master of almightyness" LOL. Don't these guys realize how absolutely ridiculous this sounds?

His kung fu was actually quite exceptional, but by assuming such absurd titles, he sure lost a lot of credibility.

Well speaking as his highness the lord high omnipotent royal grand imperial boobah ultimate high level grand master and evil wizard of Xuefu….I agree completely :mst: :uhyeah:

 

[Marnetmar]

Are you talking about William Cheung? Heck I'd go along with the term "master". Now "grandmaster" is pushing it, but what the heck, these days even "Grandmasters" are a dime a dozen.

Similarly, my old sifu adopted the titles "professor, doctor, grandmaster", as well as "master of almightyness" LOL. Don't these guys realize how absolutely ridiculous this sounds?

His kung fu was actually quite exceptional, but by assuming such absurd titles, he sure lost a lot of credibility.

No, I'm referring to Master Wong in this case, I didn't realize that there was a discussion about Cheung in the posts above, my apologies for any confusion :asian:

 

[mickymorton]

This guy in the video is Master Wong. Apparently UK based, he's supposed to be a Wing Chun and JKD expert and has a significant Youtube following crowd. The thing is, I can't find any info on him. No wikipedia profile or any profile of any kind that I saw.

Is he a respected authority on Wing Chun? Does anyone here know him?

you can find master wong in Wikipedia he isn't fake there are stories about him
he is a real martial artist but his name is Michael wong that's why you can't find him yes he does teach martial arts in the u.k he also practiced studied close combat and wing chung that's how I found him ?

 

[jks9199]

you can find master wong in Wikipedia he isn't fake there are stories about him
he is a real martial artist but his name is Michael wong that's why you can't find him yes he does teach martial arts in the u.k he also practiced studied close combat and wing chung that's how I found him ?

Not exactly reliable. Wikipedia has been notoriously wrong on several occasions, since the content has little review.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[JowGaWolf]

This guy in the video is Master Wong. Apparently UK based, he's supposed to be a Wing Chun and JKD expert and has a significant Youtube following crowd. The thing is, I can't find any info on him. No wikipedia profile or any profile of any kind that I saw.

Is he a respected authority on Wing Chun? Does anyone here know him?

ha ha ha.. too funny.. I don't want to break your hands. then you can't grab any more....

 

[paitingman]

I actually love master wong. Reasons being:
-he's a fit man who obviously trains very hard and loves martial arts and exercise.
-he wont talk crap on other styles or as he says "when you dont know (about) something, it's best to keep your gob shut" with a few expletives in there aha
-he's just a wacky character.
his martial arts view/techniques and just persona may not be up some peoples alley but I find he's just a very enthusiastic, hard training individual who likes to share a lot of videos which is a okay in my book