Man defending himself against women

[Touch Of Death]

Her attacking him is the cause of her cracked skull. Had she not attacked him then he wouldn't have done what he did. Similar to. Don't attack a police officer because he may beat you or shoot you. Action and consequences.

She is practically the size of a child. Treat her like one.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You too, should not work around bus terminals.

And you should perhaps reconsider some of your sexist attitudes.

 

[Touch Of Death]

By all means, bash their heads in, if you want to, but don't do this in the name of some company that you care about. Just get out there and do it. LOL

 

[JowGaWolf]

Couple of questions. First, what actual evidence do we have that this kind of behavior is becoming more common? Second, is it possible that neither person was "right?' We don't actually have to picks team to side with here.

Because you asked for it Articles and statistics
Are U.S. girls becoming more violent

Are our girls getting more violent

 

[Steve]

Do you really want me to get the news videos of schools system where I am saying that this is an increasing problem. Do I really need to publish articles of this happening every month? It's an easy google search and the information is easy to find

I think you would need to also find documentation that it was less of a problem in the past. Or... wait... are you saying that just finding videos on the internet is proof? I don't think that will go over very well around here, when someone next posts a video related to a particular style.

Let me say it another way. Videos and news articles are only evidence that these things happen at least "some." How often? I don't know, unless we have reliable statistics. Does this happen more often now than in the past? No way to really know unless we have statistics now and ALSO in the past.

It's not about right or wrong. It's about understanding that actions have consequences. So don't go slap a tiger in it's face and expect the tiger not do something in return. If I attack someone, then why should I demand the person that I'm attacking care about my safety?

I think it really depends, and I think it really should be a case by case evaluation. My intent is to point out that there is a possibility that both parties here could have handled the situation better, and we don't necessarily have to take one side over the other.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Because you asked for it Articles and statistics
Are U.S. girls becoming more violent

Are our girls getting more violent

Do men now have the right to knock some sense into them?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think you would need to also find documentation that it was less of a problem in the past. Or... wait... are you saying that just finding videos on the internet is proof? I don't think that will go over very well around here, when someone next posts a video related to a particular style.

Let me say it another way. Videos and news articles are only evidence that these things happen at least "some." How often? I don't know, unless we have reliable statistics. Does this happen more often now than in the past? No way to really know unless we have statistics now and ALSO in the past.
I think it really depends, and I think it really should be a case by case evaluation. My intent is to point out that there is a possibility that both parties here could have handled the situation better, and we don't necessarily have to take one side over the other.

I didn't say anything about videos. I said articles and statistics. News articles often quote statistics and provide the resources from which those statistics come from.
News articles #1 Resources

1. James Garbarino, See Jane Hit: Why Girls Are Growing More Violent and What We Can Do About It (New York: The Penguin Press, 2006); and Deborah Prothow-Sith and Howard R. Spivak, Sugar and Spice and No Longer Nice: How We Can Stop Girls' Violence (Hoboken, N.J.: Josey-Bass, 2005).
2. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Uniform Crime Reporting Program, accessed online at www.fbi.gov, on June 26, 2006.
3. Darrell Steffensmeier et al., "An Assessment of Recent Trends in Girls' Violence Using Diverse Longitudinal Sources: Is the Gender Gap Closing?" Criminology 43, no. 2 (2005): 355-405.
4. Steffensmeier et al., "An Assessment of Recent Trends."
5. "Hermione Granger is Turning Girls Violent!" Hindustan Times (May 27, 2006), accessed online at nexis.com, on July 5, 2006.
6. Steffensmeier et al., "An Assessment of Recent Trends."
7. Steffensmeier et al., "An Assessment of Recent Trends."
8. Steffensmeier et al., "An Assessment of Recent Trends."
9. Leslie Acoca, "Characteristics of Girls at Risk of Entering or Involved With the Juvenile Justice System," Juvenile Justice 6, no. 1 (1999), accessed online at www.ncjrs.gov, on July 4, 2006
10. Acoca, "Characteristics of Girls at Risk of Entering or Involved with the Juvenile Justice System."
11. Steffensmeier et al., "An Assessment of Recent Trends."
12. Acoca, "Characteristics of Girls at Risk."
13. Steffensmeier et al., "An Assessment of Recent Trends."
14. Cindy D. Ness, "Why Girls Fight: Female Youth Violence in the Inner City," The Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science 595 (2004): 32-48

I've already posted 2 articles. To be honest I don't see why I have to prove what I'm saying. If someone doesn't believe me then do research, google it, and throw the "truth" back into my face. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. It gets very tiring to do other people's research to provide something that they won't read anyway..

There are a lot of things that could have been handled better.. Like the woman could have handled her attitude better, Like they could have made sure that a woman employee was on duty to handle the situation. Regardless of what could have been handled better. The conflict would not have existed if she didn't attack the man. Life is full of actions and consequences.

 

[Tez3]

What on earth makes you think 'girls' are getting more violent?
Look, women have always had as many violent tendencies as men, we just have more opportunities to express that violence now. Any ideas you have of women being sweet little things and it's modern society which is making us violent I would throw right out of the window. I really wish you would stop thinking of women as a separate species.
Many fight it hard to think that women can be capable of violence but believe me women are, always have been. They aren't getting more violent it's just now more open.

 

[Northern Man]

Now this is always a controversial subject but I want to talk about what happens if a woman attacks a man. Luckily it's never happened to me so I haven't had to be in that situation but I've seen it before and the man defends himself against a woman throwing hard punches and he defended himself yet he got in trouble with the police.

Personally if a woman attacks me I'm going to defend myself. If you attack me you're starting it so I'm finishing it I don't care who you are or what gender. Women can do just as much damage as men can so that's my stand on it

My philosophy on this: If a woman attacks a man, they are asking to be treated like a man and want to be hurt by disregarding rights of the man. No take backs once the first strike is delivered by the woman, if you don't want something don't do that something to others. This goes for both sides, so I treat both genders equally. If women think they should receive special treatment just for being born that way in an assault situation, they are messed up in the head.

 

[Tez3]

If women think they should receive special treatment just for being born that way in an assault situation, they are messed up in the head.

Let me put that in a far less sexist way shall I?
If SOME women think they should receive special treatment etc.
You wouldn't like it if I lumped all men in the same box ie if men think it's fine to thump women....it should be if some men etc

 

[Northern Man]

Let me put that in a far less sexist way shall I?
If SOME women think they should receive special treatment etc.
You wouldn't like it if I lumped all men in the same box ie if men think it's fine to thump women....it should be if some men etc

Hint: In an assault situation.
Where they especially have targeted the man first.
So it in fact already has that "some" in effect but dunno if you deliberately missed the point to cry out sexism.

 

[drop bear]

If you can try not to bash people. Even if they are bad people.

 

[drop bear]

Let me put that in a far less sexist way shall I?
If SOME women think they should receive special treatment etc.
You wouldn't like it if I lumped all men in the same box ie if men think it's fine to thump women....it should be if some men etc

Ok this specifically. Because it is a concept that gets used a bit both ways. When we talk violent men vs violent women. We are discussing a small minority of the overall population.

So tes is right here.

 

[Northern Man]

Ok this specifically. Because it is a concept that gets used a bit both ways. When we talk violent men vs violent women. We are discussing a small minority of the overall population.

So tes is right here.

Usually it's the woman who thinks they shouldn't be hit back when they attack someone just because it's a woman doing it. Not men and it's already targeting a special group of women by stating the situation so it's not sexist. I'm only asking for you to use common sense here.

 

[Tez3]

Hint: In an assault situation.
Where they especially have targeted the man first.
So it in fact already has that "some" in effect but dunno if you deliberately missed the point to cry out sexism.

No I didn't miss the point nor the one of this patronising post.

Actually it isn't usually the woman who thinks men shouldn't be hit, it's most often the men. If a women is attacking someone because they are drunk, on drugs or generally a violent person they really don't give a monkeys whether they get hit back. Most often it is the men, most women in martial arts will tell you of times they've had problems just sparring with a man because he thinks he shouldn't hit back. Many men will also tell you that while sparring with a women and they get the feeling it isn't right hitting a woman.
This is because of upbringing, boys are taught that it's 'wrong' to hit girls, men are told it's bad to hit women and girls are brought up that can't be violent...even when it would be a good idea to be. Sometimes it's hard to get women to spar and subsequently learn to defend themselves because of this stricture on girls not hitting.
This whole thing is far more complicated than it seems at first sight. Of course the obvious thing would be to bring your children up the same regardless of gender, that no one attacks anyone, that violence shouldn't be a way of life. We do need to stop assigning children a way of thinking just because of their gender.
It's wrong for anyone to attack another, if attacked you should defend yourself with reasonable force appropriate to the situation.

 

[Northern Man]

No I didn't miss the point nor the one of this patronising post.

Actually it isn't usually the woman who thinks men shouldn't be hit, it's most often the men. If a women is attacking someone because they are drunk, on drugs or generally a violent person they really don't give a monkeys whether they get hit back. Most often it is the men, most women in martial arts will tell you of times they've had problems just sparring with a man because he thinks he shouldn't hit back. Many men will also tell you that while sparring with a women and they get the feeling it isn't right hitting a woman.
This is because of upbringing, boys are taught that it's 'wrong' to hit girls, men are told it's bad to hit women and girls are brought up that can't be violent...even when it would be a good idea to be. Sometimes it's hard to get women to spar and subsequently learn to defend themselves because of this stricture on girls not hitting.
This whole thing is far more complicated than it seems at first sight. Of course the obvious thing would be to bring your children up the same regardless of gender, that no one attacks anyone, that violence shouldn't be a way of life. We do need to stop assigning children a way of thinking just because of their gender.
It's wrong for anyone to attack another, if attacked you should defend yourself with reasonable force appropriate to the situation.

One of my points was: "if you don't want something don't do that something to others."
Don't ask for violence by attacking someone because you will get it, trust me. This goes for both genders you know? If they back out after that first hit I give in self-defense, hey conflict avoided so it's a win win for both. But don't think there's holding back so I can avoid creating more conflict. (Of course, only going to hit the legal targets.)

 

[Rmada]

It's wrong for anyone to attack another, if attacked you should defend yourself with reasonable force appropriate to the situation.

This sums it up nicely. It gets subjective though when you start trying to define what is "reasonable force" in each situation.

 

[Tez3]

This sums it up nicely. It gets subjective though when you start trying to define what is "reasonable force" in each situation.

Not really. Under our laws (UK) as long as you use common sense you can even use lethal force, it has to be violence appropriate to the situation. If you are attacked by an armed person, whether it's a gun or another weapon and you are in fear of your life ( obviously) you can use lethal force, you can even use a pre-emptive strike. If you successfully fight off an attacker using 'strong' force because you are in fear of your life or fear for others that's fine. What is not fine is fighting off an attacker, putting him/her down then kicking them in the head, disproportionate force. If someone throws a punch at you and you take a weapon of some sort and beat him up that is not fine. Defending yourself is good but going over the top is not.
This is UK law.

"
Reasonable Force
A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances for the purposes of:

• self-defence; or
• defence of another; or
• defence of property; or
• prevention of crime; or
• lawful arrest.

In assessing the reasonableness of the force used, prosecutors should ask two questions:

• was the use of force necessary in the circumstances, i.e. Was there a need for any force at all? and
• was the force used reasonable in the circumstances?

The courts have indicated that both questions are to answered on the basis of the facts as the accused honestly believed them to be (R v Williams (G) 78 Cr App R 276), (R. v Oatbridge, 94 Cr App R 367).

To that extent it is a subjective test. There is, however, an objective element to the test. The jury must then go on to ask themselves whether, on the basis of the facts as the accused believed them to be, a reasonable person would regard the force used as reasonable or excessive.

It is important to bear in mind when assessing whether the force used was reasonable the words of Lord Morris in (Palmer v R 1971 AC 814);

"If there has been an attack so that self defence is reasonably necessary, it will be recognised that a person defending himself cannot weigh to a nicety the exact measure of his defensive action. If the jury thought that that in a moment of unexpected anguish a person attacked had only done what he honestly and instinctively thought necessary, that would be the most potent evidence that only reasonable defensive action had been taken ..."

The fact that an act was considered necessary does not mean that the resulting action was reasonable: (R v Clegg 1995 1 AC 482 HL). Where it is alleged that a person acted to defend himself/herself from violence, the extent to which the action taken was necessary will, of course, be integral to the reasonableness of the force used.

In (R v OGrady 85 Cr App R 315), it was held by the Court of Appeal that a defendant was not entitled to rely, so far as self-defence is concerned, upon a mistake of fact which had been induced by voluntary intoxication.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Most often it is the men, most women in martial arts will tell you of times they've had problems just sparring with a man because he thinks he shouldn't hit back. Many men will also tell you that while sparring with a women and they get the feeling it isn't right hitting a woman.

I'm not disagreeing with your comment as it doesn't happen in my school. The men spar with women all the time with no problem. Other than being more aware of where we put our hands and where we punch to avoid certain body parts, the guys don't have a problem with punching a woman in the head. (lol man that sounds bad)

Part of the reason that men feel that way is because of how society looks at men who do it even if the man is protecting himself. For example, some of the comments about the bus terminal employee who was seen as a brute because he swept her even though she was the one that attacked him.

Keep in mind that It's not only men that have this concept of men shouldn't hit women. There are some women that also think this way. I don't know for sure, but maybe some of the hesitation from the men come from how they think society will view it, and not understanding that not sparring with a female martial arts partner actually hurts her and not help her. I grew up as a youth during the 70's - 90's and there has definitely been a big change of youth committing violent acts both female and male. Unfortunately it has increased. I don't blame modern society or video games, I never have. I put the blame squarely on those parents and those in society who fail to see that humans are violent and fail to raise children to better control those emotions that make them want to attack someone.

5 days a week I train to hurt people with as much cruelty and efficiency as possible. I play violent video games, watch violent movies, and love to fight competitively. I'm submerged in a life style of violence and I've never attacked anyone, because I was raised to keep control of my violence and not let violence take control of me. How can people learn to control their violent thirst for violent behavior if they don't even admit that it's there. The only reason I have this perspective is because I worked 2 decades with children and I've been to youth development seminars and workshops. I can tell you that all of those books that came out during that time I worked with childrend on how to raise children pretty much screwed society.

 

[Tez3]

I'm not disagreeing with your comment as it doesn't happen in my school. The men spar with women all the time with no problem. Other than being more aware of where we put our hands and where we punch to avoid certain body parts, the guys don't have a problem with punching a woman in the head. (lol man that sounds bad)

Part of the reason that men feel that way is because of how society looks at men who do it even if the man is protecting himself. For example, some of the comments about the bus terminal employee who was seen as a brute because he swept her even though she was the one that attacked him.

Keep in mind that It's not only men that have this concept of men shouldn't hit women. There are some women that also think this way. I don't know for sure, but maybe some of the hesitation from the men come from how they think society will view it, and not understanding that not sparring with a female martial arts partner actually hurts her and not help her. I grew up as a youth during the 70's - 90's and there has definitely been a big change of youth committing violent acts both female and male. Unfortunately it has increased. I don't blame modern society or video games, I never have. I put the blame squarely on those parents and those in society who fail to see that humans are violent and fail to raise children to better control those emotions that make them want to attack someone.

5 days a week I train to hurt people with as much cruelty and efficiency as possible. I play violent video games, watch violent movies, and love to fight competitively. I'm submerged in a life style of violence and I've never attacked anyone, because I was raised to keep control of my violence and not let violence take control of me. How can people learn to control their violent thirst for violent behavior if they don't even admit that it's there. The only reason I have this perspective is because I worked 2 decades with children and I've been to youth development seminars and workshops. I can tell you that all of those books that came out during that time I worked with childrend on how to raise children pretty much screwed society.

As I said, it's the way children are brought up that dictates how this 'not hitting a woman' thing is decided. I did say that women are also brought up this way also.
I have never trained to hurt people 'cruelly' only to be able to defend myself and others as well as control those who I needed to at the time. Cruelty shouldn't come into it at any point.
I also don't see why you are avoiding punching women to 'avoid certain body parts', if a chest is wearing a chest protector which I strongly suggest they do for a couple of reasons, then there should be no problem.