Being attacked in public with child

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by Master Dan, Nov 1, 2015.

  1. Master Dan

    Master Dan Master Black Belt

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    We went to a movie at a Subway theater and on the way out we talked with 4 young girls who had been texting during the movie. All of a sudden a female came from behind started shouting obscenities and threatening. A worker from behind the sandwich counter told us all to leave. My wife was in the bathroom and my daughter and I left for our truck. My daughter 10 years old was behind me trailing as I went to unlock the truck. All of a sudden my daughter screams daddy she hurt my back and was crying this female had hit her into a truck. I turned horrified and angry and stepped in to keep her from approaching or getting at my daughter again. The female started shouting obscenities racial and other wise and mentioning she knew who I was and wasn't afraid of me. She came at me three times hitting and kicking attempting to kick me in the groin. I palmed her to the face three times knocking her down each time she got up and came again. Finally she had had enough and as my wife walks out she yells your husband is leaving you because we were trying to get in our vehicle. Now through all of this I am thinking this was a 15 year old high on something? We go home an hour later a good officer shows up to ask me what happened we explain he examines me and my daughter and tells us of her incoherent calls to the police station and refused to give her location. Turns out she is 24 and career drug user and violent offender doing violence everywhere she goes. Everyone from the police, troopers and corrections knows her. I was glad I did not know this at the time because I may have decided to do some serious damage to her.

    In discussions with most all law enforcement I was surprised how many advised I should have done some real damage to this person even had the right to shoot her? I had some business and was in the whole trooper shop and they all knew who this person was and thought I should have done a lot more. I told them it was not morally right to use more force than necessary. Yes at 63 I later had some bruising and my wife a nurse was concerned about my getting blood clots? I was a little sore later but went away. The investigation officer came back to days later to reinter view us a as filing assault charges on the female. It took a month for them to catch her and her trial has been postponed three times. The trial will be in 6 days. I do not want my daughter to attend she was traumatized enough. Interesting thing the DA called and said they were giving me a special email notice of anytime this person was to be in court and I have received those.

    End of story is that true self defense is about weighing the total cost of your actions. Regardless of all the emotional statements of what many officers said they would have done the actual exposure of my being a male standing over a young female obviously hurt or having her in a painful nerve lock when an unknown officer drives up was too negative to consider. We did the right thing in going home and letting law enforcement do their investigation proving us right in our actions and possibly getting this person off the street. However I do not think jail however long or short will change this person's behavior because of more deep seated mental and historical violence. I could in no wise justify doing permanent damage or shooting this person. Over 40 years in MA always vigilant to things before they happen but all the most dangerous situations come out of nowhere you never expect? The older and greyer you get the more a target you become. I am constantly getting attacked as I walk my dog legally on a leash by dogs off their leashes some even large pit bulls. I love dogs and we have no vet now in our town and do not want to hurt dogs or see mine need stitches. I just ordered the 10 million volt Police baton Taser flash light. Some dog is going to get his nuts fried. My corrections friend said I should use my bear spray but that would send the dog home and make everyone in the house cough which I think is escalation not to mention I may get it on myself and my dog in the me lay? Starting to think No Country For Old Men?
     
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  2. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Your restraint is admirable.

    At the end of the day- even where just self defense is concerned, rather than the additional responsibility of defending a loved one-I would rather face the consequences, legal and emotional, of not using or thinking I didn't use enough restraint, than the consequences of having used too much.

    In other words, if she'd put her hands on my daughter, never mind coming at me afterward, she'd have stayed down the first time.
     
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  3. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah its tough. I try not to get kids and fights anywhere near each other.
     
  4. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Self-defense is far more than punching and kicking.
     
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  5. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Wait... After the fact, some actual LEO advised yiu that you should have done some real damage and/or shot the girl??

    I'd love to read the actual police report on this, because your account seems a little off.
     
  6. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    It's Alaska.....I'm betting the assailant was a native.....

    From a situational awareness viewpoint, you shouldn't ever have children in your care out of sight, especially in the aftermath of something like this....(in re: "self defense is more than punching and kicking")
     
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  7. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Sorry this happened to you, but I have to ask...

    Why in the world would you allow your 10 year old daughter to get between you and the assailant?
     
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  8. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Why? If she was a known violent scumbag. Then i can imagine the police wanting someone to take her head off.

    We have a girl like that. If she goes off she goes off all the way. I have never had a drama with her but she has bee known to glass people.
     
  9. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    Thank goodness you and your child are okay.
     
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  10. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Yeah. I frankly don't know. I would presume that most cops would refrain from endorsing vigilantism. But maybe the Leo who post here can comment.
     
  11. GiYu - Todd

    GiYu - Todd Green Belt

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    I doubt I would have exercised that much restraint. Of course, without actually being in your situation, I'm not in a position to judge.

    Glad you're okay.
     
  12. Paul_D

    Paul_D Master Black Belt

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    I don't see how you cannot effectively defend yourself if you are, in the back of your mind, having to weigh up the possible consequences of your actions.

    You need to react, and do what is necessary, as UK law states "a person cannot be expected to judge to a nicety the the exact measure of his defensive action."
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2015
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  13. crazydiamond

    crazydiamond Purple Belt

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    Having my child attacked, or with me if I am attacked, is a horrible thought.

    However, I think law enforcement would be highly sympathetic to just about any force a parent used if their child was hit or threatened. It sounds as though you had the skills to keep putting her down with out further risks of harm to you or to your daughter.

    Not that it would have helped but does your daughter train in self defense or MA? My 7 year old trains at the same school I do and we practice at home together some times.
     
  14. Master Dan

    Master Dan Master Black Belt

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    Yes she has trained with me 4 years has really strong kicks can knock a full grown man down but she is a beautiful spirit and not in her nature to do that especially a bizarre attack like this with out warning? The DA just called me after someone posing and the attackers Public defender wanting information and then admitted to being an investigator for the defendant? I told the DA I was not interested in anything that did not take this person off the street for considerable time and that I have 20 years plus working with a very violent section of the population in this area and my experience is this was a predator looking as a bully does to hurt or dominate people who appeared weaker than them. Some of these people can be rehabilitated treatment but many a long history of violence is tied to needing medication and will always reoffend with Alcohol or drugs.

    Law enforcement suggesting doing serious harm or even shooting is easy to say after the fact. People must always consider the sum total of their actions. True skill means not having to use it more than is needed.
     
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  15. Master Dan

    Master Dan Master Black Belt

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    We did not notice she had followed us outside and again real easy for some to judge not being there. Small community lots of politics
     
  16. Master Dan

    Master Dan Master Black Belt

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    Also I recently had Neuro surgery on my back and has slowed certain functions but I could of easily done more it was my choice to not and the result has been in my favor and for that of my child.
     
  17. Master Dan

    Master Dan Master Black Belt

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    we are and I am getting better therapy and training 5 days a week possibly more advanced stretching in a few weeks and a return to forms but I will likely never return to work again according to doctors here and surgeon in Seattle. Seeing specialist in January nothing to do with this altercation but many years of full contact 1,000 kicks a day heavy bag takes its toll in age.
     
  18. crazydiamond

    crazydiamond Purple Belt

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    Yes I get this. My 7 year old started over a year ago. She is very big strong girl for her age (like dad). Her punches and kicks are powerful for her age - she is equal to a 10-12 year old. She was punched recently at the park by a 8 year boy and covered well but she could not bring her self to hit him back. I get that.
     
  19. Master Dan

    Master Dan Master Black Belt

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    Its easy for people to analyze from the couch but first while it turned out to be a real problem person to mental health and law enforcement here she was a total unknown to me and she followed from behind. The pathway is less than 3 feet wide icy and a steep incline from that. I was in front leading to get the truck open. Trust me after she hit my daughter I was placed in between her and my daughter. As for the cheap comments of SD is more that punched and kicks? really I've spent my life training with some of the best in the world. Anyone who has considerable street experience knows that when an individual is high on drugs and alcohol in many cases you may need to do considerable damage or a need to make them unconscious to keep them down. The woman turned out to be 24 but in my mind she looked 15? I stopped her with as little damage to her as possible taking some abuse to myself. So comments from people who had that knowledge plus the criminal history later is based on that not my knowledge at the time. The positive part is that the DA and law enforcement is on my side.
     
  20. PiedmontChun

    PiedmontChun Purple Belt

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    Dan, I didn't read Danny's comment as a cheap comment. I'm familiar of his posting elsewhere on MT and he is always courteous to a fault. I took it to mean that defending oneself is very much mental and more than the physical actions themselves, which you demonstrated by using restraint and thinking quickly to keep the situation from escalating or any harm to come to your family in the process. There are so many factors that come into what is a proper response. I could think on the flip side the proverbial hornet's nest that could be opened had you hurt the assailant more severely and the circumstances not been the same (What if she was the mayor's troublesome niece and not a known drug user?). Sounds like you handled it all pretty dang well.123
     

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