Looking for a Taekwondo mentor

[JowGaWolf]

To clarify, what you seem to be talking about is seminars. I'm not against seminars, but it's currently not something I've put much thought into.

Not seminars... Relationships. The best example I can give is the MartialTalk meet up. Seminars are good, but it's much better when you can freely interact back and forth share ideas, solve problems about a technique or test theories about a technique. Instead of one teaching the other, you both are learning something from each other. Seminars are kind of one sided. I'm hear to teach. Relationships are much more informal "Hey lets get together" type thing. When I think of seminars I'm thinking event planning... Yuck. When I think of the MartialTalk meetup then I'm thinking of a get together. I finally get an opportunity to meet some of the guys that I've been going back and forth with lol.

If someone wanted to say. Hey I want to test your low stance principles, then I'll can just say sure and give people that opportunity to test it and to give myself the opportunity to test my own skills and abilities. While I'm not old, I am getting older so what worked for me when I was younger may not be the best path now. Opportunities like that are more to my liking than a formal seminar. If you have a relationship with other martial artist then you can also brainstorm with them on things like teaching methods or class management. Whatever is on your mind at the time, these type of relationships are treasures.

In what way?

About the TKD hand strikes. I just want to make sure, because I forget all of these martial arts people take, But I know in some schools the emphaiss is on kicks and less on hand techniques. So I was wondering if you were going to dig deeper in to the hand techniques than what the current schools do.

 

[JowGaWolf]

There are mentors who will do that for the warm fuzzy feeling.

Bjj is moving in that direction in opposition to the pyramid scheme that is sort of being created by the need to be affiliated.

The politics of some organizations can become very tiring. I know I don't have patience for it. It also creates power struggles that really don't need to exist.

Like for me to give more respect to a martial arts teacher than I would my parents is a really difficult think for me to do.

 

[skribs]

About the TKD hand strikes. I just want to make sure, because I forget all of these martial arts people take, But I know in some schools the emphaiss is on kicks and less on hand techniques. So I was wondering if you were going to dig deeper in to the hand techniques than what the current schools do.

Yes, but not to the extent we're punching each other in the face in sparring. That's one thing I like about Taekwondo. You can spar without taking a bunch of punches to the face.

But for example, in my Muay Thai class, we will often do combos that resemble the kinds of combos we did in Taekwondo. But in my TKD class, they were mostly done as rote memorized combos for testing, against the air. In Muay Thai, they're done on pads or in partner drills. I'd want to go more that route.

 

[skribs]

There are mentors who will do that for the warm fuzzy feeling.

Bjj is moving in that direction in opposition to the pyramid scheme that is sort of being created by the need to be affiliated.

Are you talking about 3rd-party mentors like I'm looking for, or for people who are still affiliated with their old professor, or who find mentors within the IBJJF?

The politics of some organizations can become very tiring. I know I don't have patience for it. It also creates power struggles that really don't need to exist.

Yes. And sometimes it's baked into the structure, like how ATA requires you to promote X number of people to black belt to get points for your next promotion.

 

[drop bear]

Are you talking about 3rd-party mentors like I'm looking for, or for people who are still affiliated with their old professor, or who find mentors within the IBJJF?

Yes. And sometimes it's baked into the structure, like how ATA requires you to promote X number of people to black belt to get points for your next promotion.

As far as I understand it.

You kind of have to be affiliated with either the Gracies or michardos. So to grade to black belt You have to do a bunch of service to either one or the other. Or be part of a club that does.

And that might be things like hosting seminars or paying fees.

It can get very pyramid scheme.

And then there is the IBBJF that has its own jam.

Anyway if you are any good. You can find black belts who will recognise your ability and just grade you without the shenanigans. And then you can be a legitimate school instructor without having to be under the umbrella of an organisation.

And for example compete as a recognised school and stuff.

And then there are after market organisations like belt checker. That operate outside the IBJJF. And will recognise rank.

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[bluepanther]

That is not at all true. Forms are nothing more than a series of movements. I may not know the order of movement in his forms, but I don't need to; it's reasonable to assume that he does, since he developed them. But if his form does a backfist, reverse punch, and then a spinning hook kick, I can absolutely tell if those movements are done properly. So can pretty much any experienced martial artist.

What do you think kwanjangnim means?


No he didn't. They were developed by Choi Hong Hi, Nam Tae Hi, Han Cha Kyo, Kong Young Il, Choi Chang Keun, Kim Bok Man and Park Jung Tae, primarily, and it's almost certain that there was some degree of input from many, many others.

Kwan Jang Nim highest ranked and creator of art? So can you tell me the meaning of some of the movements in Chil Sung Sam Lo? Not your basic backfist, punch, spinning kick. If I developed a form with a weird movement perhaps only I would know it is an Osotogari. You are assuming he would make simplistic forms. And if any experienced martial artist can judge movements, how come there is no definitive bunkai for kata? You may think he is performing high blocks but he may intend them to be arm breaks. Too, too subjective

 

[Dirty Dog]

Kwan Jang Nim highest ranked and creator of art?

Nope. It means you own the school. That's it. Has nothing to do with rank. Founder in Korean is seollibja.

So can you tell me the meaning of some of the movements in Chil Sung Sam Lo? Not your basic backfist, punch, spinning kick. If I developed a form with a weird movement perhaps only I would know it is an Osotogari. You are assuming he would make simplistic forms. And if any experienced martial artist can judge movements, how come there is no definitive bunkai for kata? You may think he is performing high blocks but he may intend them to be arm breaks. Too, too subjective

The developers of the most common TKD forms have stated explicitly that there is no secret meaning or hidden use of the techniques.
The reason there is no definitive bunkai is because such a thing is not possible. The application of a movement is totally situational. The same basic movement can be a block, a strike, a grab, whatever.

 

[bluepanther]

Nope. It means you own the school. That's it. Has nothing to do with rank. Founder in Korean is seollibja.

The developers of the most common TKD forms have stated explicitly that there is no secret meaning or hidden use of the techniques.
The reason there is no definitive bunkai is because such a thing is not possible. The application of a movement is totally situational. The same basic movement can be a block, a strike, a grab, whatever.

Exactly. So he is not limited to making straight forward forms, he could in fact choose to use hidden meanings that only he would know. Which brings up a great point. I can appreciate Taekwondo forms more for their honesty in movement. A high block is a high block. Karate kata sometimes leaves me perplexed with why am I doing this. Who wants to guess at what moves mean when it is right there,

So, yes, if he made Taekwondo forms then it would be easily judged but if he chooses to incorporate other arts, as he mentioned, then the forms could become extremely difficult to judge if he chose an ecletic road.

 

[J. Pickard]

The developers of the most common TKD forms have stated explicitly that there is no secret meaning or hidden use of the techniques.
The reason there is no definitive bunkai is because such a thing is not possible. The application of a movement is totally situational. The same basic movement can be a block, a strike, a grab, whatever.

This is actually why I love TKD. The forms teach concepts and important body mechanics, it's up to the practitioner to learn how to apply them. So unlike karate kata, there is no prescribed application to TKD poomsae because the application is situational. In other words you actually have learn and understand how your body works within the context of the form to make it applicable instead of just memorizing a specific bunkai.

 

[bluepanther]

Kwan Jang Nim highest ranked and creator of art?

Nope. It means you own the school. That's it. Has nothing to do with rank. Founder in Korean is seollibja

Ok. I thought a Kwan was a school. So if you invent an art and then form a Kwan to house that art, then the KJN is the one who built the Kwan to house his art. Sort of how Hwang Kee developed Soo Bahk Do but taught it through his school called the Moo Duk Kwan

 

[skribs]

Exactly. So he is not limited to making straight forward forms, he could in fact choose to use hidden meanings that only he would know. Which brings up a great point. I can appreciate Taekwondo forms more for their honesty in movement. A high block is a high block. Karate kata sometimes leaves me perplexed with why am I doing this. Who wants to guess at what moves mean when it is right there,

I have my own opinions of bunkai, but I'm not going to get into them here. The way I connect with forms and plan on teaching them, bunkai is not a part of it. The forms are largely an aesthetic exercise. Any connection between the techniques in my forms and to other related movements is a happy coincidence.

So, yes, if he made Taekwondo forms then it would be easily judged but if he chooses to incorporate other arts, as he mentioned, then the forms could become extremely difficult to judge if he chose an ecletic road.

The way I'm going to implement other arts isn't going to be to take their forms. In fact, the other arts I'm drawing inspiration from don't even have forms.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Exactly. So he is not limited to making straight forward forms, he could in fact choose to use hidden meanings that only he would know.

Performing forms does not, ever, involve demonstrating bunkai. If the form calls for a sidekick, you do a sidekick, and you are judged based on how well you do that sidekick.

 

[skribs]

Performing forms does not, ever, involve demonstrating bunkai. If the form calls for a sidekick, you do a sidekick, and you are judged based on how well you do that sidekick.

I actually did try and go through a design phase where I would come up with 1-steps, and then come up with a form that can be used as a collection of those one-steps in an artistic fashion.

After a bit of trial and error, I decided to keep the two separate so I can make each of them better than if I tried to force them into some abominable hybrid.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Ok. I thought a Kwan was a school. So if you invent an art and then form a Kwan to house that art, then the KJN is the one who built the Kwan to house his art. Sort of how Hwang Kee developed Soo Bahk Do but taught it through his school called the Moo Duk Kwan

It could be argued that if I rent you a room to use for teaching, I am the kwanjang. Because I own it. Kwanjang is equally applicable to the guy who owns the local 24 hour fitness. Or the local Yoga studio.
Sabum is the person teaching you TKD, but it's also the person teaching you basic maths.

 

[bluepanther]

I have my own opinions of bunkai, but I'm not going to get into them here. The way I connect with forms and plan on teaching them, bunkai is not a part of it. The forms are largely an aesthetic exercise. Any connection between the techniques in my forms and to other related movements is a happy coincidence.

The way I'm going to implement other arts isn't going to be to take their forms. In fact, the other arts I'm drawing inspiration from don't even have forms.

Ok, I was a little confused thinking you meant putting a bunch of grappling moves into a form along with strikes.

 

[bluepanther]

It could be argued that if I rent you a room to use for teaching, I am the kwanjang. Because I own it. Kwanjang is equally applicable to the guy who owns the local 24 hour fitness. Or the local Yoga studio.
Sabum is the person teaching you TKD, but it's also the person teaching you basic maths.

Thinking of opening a dojang/laundromat. I could be KJN and have the cleanest techniques in town.

 

[skribs]

Ok, I was a little confused thinking you meant putting a bunch of grappling moves into a form along with strikes.

Lots of folks include that, and that's where hidden meanings come in. For example, that a down block and step is actually a foot sweep and throwing their head down.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Ok, I was a little confused thinking you meant putting a bunch of grappling moves into a form along with strikes.

TKD forms include a plethora of movements that can be used for grappling.

 

[Dirty Dog]

This is actually why I love TKD. The forms teach concepts and important body mechanics, it's up to the practitioner to learn how to apply them. So unlike karate kata, there is no prescribed application to TKD poomsae because the application is situational. In other words you actually have learn and understand how your body works within the context of the form to make it applicable instead of just memorizing a specific bunkai.

Application of movements in kata is no more (or less) prescribed than in poomsae. The form/poomsae teaches a movement called, for example, an outside to inside middle block. And it's great for that. But the same basic movement can be performed a little higher as an outside to inside high block. Or as a hammer fist to the head. The chamber for that movement, with the fist near the ear, can be used to block. The forward movement can be used to tangle your opponents arm. The list goes on. Various people are constantly coming up with "new" and "secret" applications of these movements. That's utter nonsense. There's nothing "new" or "secret" about it. Forms teach movements. Names are given to those movements because it's a lot easier and efficient to tell your class to do an inside middle block than to describe the movement in full each time. If and when the student really understands the principals underlying the movement, the applications are obvious, and virtually limitless.
Every block is a strike. Every strike is a block. And a grapple. And whatever else you need it to be.

 

[Earl Weiss]

The developers of the most common TKD forms have stated explicitly that there is no secret meaning or hidden use of the techniques.

Yes and no. Perhaps it is a matter of intent or this is an exception. At a course with General Choi the following scenario played out. He Asked person A "What is the purpose of this technique? " Person A replies "Sir, it is yadda dadda dadda." He looks at person B and says "Do you agree?" Person B Replys: " Sir, it is badda bing badda boom". He looks at person B and says (looking at person A "But he says it's yadda........., what do you say? " Person B responds "Sir, I have your book and it says the purpose is badda bing......" To which General Choi responds while looking at person A "He doesn't care what book says, how do we solve this problem. " The answer was to ask person A to demonstrate the application and if it worked it was a good application. Perhaps not hidden or secret but as General Choi also referenced - patterns teach distance and direction. My take on the foregoing scenario is that the stated / obvious applications are tools to help you understand how to move as well as distance and direction. Once you "understand" the applications are only limited by practical considerations. It should also be noted that no where in his texts does he state that applications shown are meant to be exclusive or exhaustive. (He does however show how some ways of doing a technique may be flawed.)