What is the point of testing after a certain level?

[andyjeffries]

You are mistaken in assuming that forms are the only place to learn techniques. I would be shocked and amazed if anyone of a rank to perform Sipjin as a required form didn't already know those techniques.

I disagree - I'd be surprised if most people learnt bawi-milgi (boulder push) outside of that poomsae, it's a super rare technique to be used normally. Same with the reverse knifehand guarding block. If those things are regularly drilled (along with all of the other basics, and sparring, and self-defence, and poomsae) then the classes must be about 5 hours long each

 

[HighKick]

I disagree - I'd be surprised if most people learnt bawi-milgi (boulder push) outside of that poomsae, it's a super rare technique to be used normally. Same with the reverse knifehand guarding block. If those things are regularly drilled (along with all of the other basics, and sparring, and self-defence, and poomsae) then the classes must be about 5 hours long each

Ahh, 'pushing the rock'. It is refreshing to hear others teach this, I assume this derives more from your CMK background than KKW?

 

[Balrog]

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When someone is going for say 6th degree, what's the difference in test between 5th and 6th? One new form? As you get to higher dan ranks, the individual is most likely going to be less capable than they were before. I expect a 30-year-old testing for 4th Dan to be more capable than a 45-year-old testing for 7th.

What is it at the higher belts that makes the test itself important?

In my style, EVERYONE tests for rank at all levels. The new form is usually considerably more difficult that the last, so there is that challenge. And yes, a lot of us are older and can't do the flashy stuff quite as well. But we can get permission to modify the form and we are expected to "step up" the rest if we do.

The big thing, to me, is that a public testing for high rank makes us keep our own personal game up. At 74, if I decide to test for 7th Degree, I'll be out there showing everyone that the old man still has a move or two left in him. It's leading by example as well.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I think more than half of the black belt testing fees at my school were for material items. The testing fee for 1st Dan was $600. I believe that around $200 of that was for the belt and uniform, and another bunch was for the Kukkiwon registration and certificate. We also use a lot of boards for our Dan tests, and those add up.

That's not to say that our Master didn't pocket a large chunk of change from each Dan test. But for the $600 test, I imagine only $200-250 went to him.

That's not bad. Standard rate at the Korean schools in the Toronto area (last I checked) was about $900 for 1st dan...and up from there. I paid $600 for first dan at a non-Korean school and received the certificate and a plain (not embroidered) 1.5 inch black belt included. I bought my own new dobok.

 

[skribs]

That's not bad. Standard rate at the Korean schools in the Toronto area (last I checked) was about $900 for 1st dan...and up from there. I paid $600 for first dan at a non-Korean school and received the certificate and a plain (not embroidered) 1.5 inch black belt included. I bought my own new dobok.

I almost wonder if it would be better when I open my own school to do an itemized list. For example, instead of a $300 test that "includes uniform and belt", I could do $100 test + $150 uniform + $50 belt; and then some of the test fee goes towards boards and certificate.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I almost wonder if it would be better when I open my own school to do an itemized list. For example, instead of a $300 test that "includes uniform and belt", I could do $100 test + $150 uniform + $50 belt; and then some of the test fee goes towards boards and certificate.

I'm all for transparency. Nothing wrong with $600 for the test itself provided people are informed at the onset. My biggest pet peeve is the announcement in front of the class "Skribs, you are doing great and will be a black belt at the end of the year", then you get all excited, then some time later in talking with your parents, there comes the "and that will be $x".

I particularly like your proposed breakdown is some items are optional. E.g., " I don't need a $100 embroidered belt, and I don't like the uniform you provide. Can I reallocate my money and buy my own better uniform, and a cheaper belt?"

 

[Flying Crane]

Does someone need a new uniform when they reach black belt? Anything wrong with keeping the one they have been using?

 

[skribs]

Does someone need a new uniform when they reach black belt? Anything wrong with keeping the one they have been using?

In TKD, it's typical to upgrade from an all-white uniform to a black-trim uniform. The black belt uniforms are typically more expensive, but they're a better material, which is both more comfortable and it sounds better when you're doing the technique.

A lot of kids are also at the point where they need a new uniform anyway.

 

[Flying Crane]

In TKD, it's typical to upgrade from an all-white uniform to a black-trim uniform. The black belt uniforms are typically more expensive, but they're a better material, which is both more comfortable and it sounds better when you're doing the technique.

View attachment 29803View attachment 29804

A lot of kids are also at the point where they need a new uniform anyway.

When did TKD begin using the black-trimmed uniforms and then the V-neck? My memory from when I was a kid in the early 1980s is that they were wearing standard karate gi. Gradually I was aware of the change but don’t know when it happened or why or whether it is universally followed.

I feel pretty confident that high quality karate gi are available for a good bit less than $150. Be a rebel. Use a karate gi for training, maybe keep a TKD gi for competition. Less wear-and-tear on it.

 

[skribs]

When did TKD begin using the black-trimmed uniforms and then the V-neck? My memory from when I was a kid in the early 1980s is that they were wearing standard karate gi. Gradually I was aware of the change but don’t know when it happened or why or whether it is universally followed.

I feel pretty confident that high quality karate gi are available for a good bit less than $150. Be a rebel. Use a karate gi for training, maybe keep a TKD gi for competition. Less wear-and-tear on it.

I did TKD in the 90s and this is what the black belts wore.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Does someone need a new uniform when they reach black belt? Anything wrong with keeping the one they have been using?

No, they do not, and no, there is not.
Many TKD systems allow Dan ranks to wear a dobak with a black collar. Baby Black Belts in KKW schools wear a red/black collar, just like their belt.
Any system that REQUIRES this dobak would be doing so primarily as a fund raiser, I suspect.

When did TKD begin using the black-trimmed uniforms and then the V-neck?

It started in the late-60's or early-70's and spread. Like so many other TKD things, I think it was mostly begun as a way to differentiate TKD from the Japanese arts.

I feel pretty confident that high quality karate gi are available for a good bit less than $150.

You can get a very nice dobak from Century for about $45.

 

[andyjeffries]

Ahh, 'pushing the rock'. It is refreshing to hear others teach this, I assume this derives more from your CMK background than KKW?

Sorry, to be clear, we don't really teach it outside of the poomsae - and I was saying I'd imagine I'm in the majority there.

Changmookwan syllabus is 100% Kukkiwon syllabus, the current Changmookwan President GM Dr Kim, Joong-young is Vice-chairman of the Kukkiwon High Dan Promotion Panel. He's also the President of the Kukkiwon 9th Dan Society.

So I appreciate my relationship with CMK more than KKW (feels like closer family compared to wider/distant family), but there's no difference in training or syllabus.

 

[andyjeffries]

When did TKD begin using the black-trimmed uniforms and then the V-neck? My memory from when I was a kid in the early 1980s is that they were wearing standard karate gi. Gradually I was aware of the change but don’t know when it happened or why or whether it is universally followed.

In Korea they were wearing black collared doboks from 1980. There's a KTA or Kukkiwon video produced in 1980 that shows them -

I don't know when they started though, I'd imagine 1970s. They were certainly common in the UK when I started in 1986.

 

[andyjeffries]

Any system that REQUIRES this dobak would be doing so primarily as a fund raiser, I suspect.

You can get a very nice dobak from Century for about $45.

Just so you know, it's "dobok" not "dobak". The Korean is "do" (도 from 태권도) meaning way or path, and "bok" (복) which is used to describe clothes, e.g. Korea's national dress is "Hanbok" (한복, 한 is from Korea in Korean - Hanguk, 한국)

 

[Earl Weiss]

The big thing, to me, is that a public testing for high rank makes us keep our own personal game up. At 74, if I decide to test for 7th Degree, I'll be out there showing everyone that the old man still has a move or two left in him. It's leading by example as well.

BAck in the 1990s Sr. GM Sereff was due to be promoted to 7th Dan. First Non Korean to reach that level. He told General Choi he would do a "Test" (Yes it was really a demo. ) At that Time the ITF did not have any tests above 6th. General Choi kept telling him there was not test for 7th. Byt as Balrog says it was to set an example- no free rides - you had to keep training. Lead by example.

As an aside, I observed a large test around the same time. I think there were 50 or so testing. About 15 for 1st, 12, for 2d, 8 for 3rd, 6 for 4th, and 4 for 5th. One thing I noted was although the seniors may not have jumped as high or had techniques quite as snappy as the lower rank candidates they had an unmistakable smoothness about their techniques that the lower ranks did not have.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Does someone need a new uniform when they reach black belt? Anything wrong with keeping the one they have been using?

Only if the organization / school dictates what is "Uniform".

 

[Dirty Dog]

Just so you know, it's "dobok" not "dobak". The Korean is "do" (도 from 태권도) meaning way or path, and "bok" (복) which is used to describe clothes, e.g. Korea's national dress is "Hanbok" (한복, 한 is from Korea in Korean - Hanguk, 한국)

Since there's no direct alphabet translation, this is merely an opinion.

 

[andyjeffries]

Since there's no direct alphabet translation, this is merely an opinion.

Errrr, what? Revised Romanisation is the official direct alphabet translation - Revised Romanization of Korean - Wikipedia

Aside from that you have two ㅗ characters in the word 도복 so they are written the same not as o + a.

 

[skribs]

Errrr, what? Revised Romanisation is the official direct alphabet translation - Revised Romanization of Korean - Wikipedia

In my experience, everyone Romanizes the words differently. Even if there's a technically correct way to do it. I mean, you and I could probably argue if green belt is a color belt or colour belt!

Aside from that you have two ㅗ characters in the word 도복 so they are written the same not as o + a.

This does make sense.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Errrr, what? Revised Romanisation is the official direct alphabet translation - Revised Romanization of Korean - Wikipedia

Aside from that you have two ㅗ characters in the word 도복 so they are written the same not as o + a.

But... but... the ORIGINAL Romanization (note spelling...) was the Official Direct Alphabet Translation....

There is no direct way to translate the letters. Each has characters with no corresponding character in the other. The most blatant example being Ieung, which normally has no pronunciation; it is silent. At most, it is a glottal stop. So while many linguists have agreed to use that adaptation, it is still nothing but an opinion.

I use dobak and dobok, color and colour, gray and grey. You will just have to deal with that, because I'm not likely to change.