Locked Wing...

[Rainman]

In AK terms balance is defined as establish your base.

No- Balance for humans just means you are stable- every time there is movement it is resaught.

To me the strike is the control because you are inside the opponent, therefore you check his height zone with the kick.

3rd range- mine is fourth range

The first move transitions to a cat stance so our base is not strongly established

mine is... for what it does- I am offline and not defying energy. I've already cut his power and am now exuding my force to his arm.

Do you study AK because you seem to be using terms in a different manner than most?

But I think you use them different

 

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by Rainman




Rotational torque, body momentum, gravitational marriage and focus (mind body breath), timing, accuracy and speed- along with placement, position, and structural alignment... for both.

Here's one for you- What kind of power?


:asian:

Chad,

First, all torque is rotational by nature, so where did you get the term rotational torque? Doesn't sound right to me.

Second, Rotating Force is the correct term. Torque is a product of Rotating Force.

Third, the main power principle behind the intial outward elbow is rotating force. Although, there are other principles that apply. to this single move.

 

[WilliamTLear]

Is about the original post on Locked Wing.

 

[Klondike93]

I'm still lost on where Marriage of Gravity is used in this technique.

I see the other principles involved but not that one, and I'm thinking in terms of how it's used in ones like Delayed Sword or Sword of Destruction etc....


:asian:

 

[eternalwhitebelt]

Just as I thought it is just a matter of semantics. I think we explan the same things in different ways.



I use marriage with gravity on the arm hyper extension to bring his head into range for the next strike and to continue to check his various zones.

I also stated that in AK balance was usually described in terms of est. a base. I never said that was its exact definition.

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear



Chad,

First, all torque is rotational by nature, so where did you get the term rotational torque? Doesn't sound right to me.

Second, Rotating Force is the correct term. Torque is a product of Rotating Force.

Third, the main power principle behind the intial outward elbow is rotating force. Although, there are other principles that apply. to this single move.

It's not right it is like saying torque-torque. Got interupted didn't catch the misprint. Didn't even notice until now.

There are no main power principles- in order to unwind to get to torque a movement must precede that- it is how our bodies are set up in conjuction with... well you know the rest It is based off intertia. For me the initial movement starts things the unwind comes after the step/slide which coincides with positioning-placement and alignment. In this particular case torque is just realignment to the natural state. The rest fall into line with impact for the best results.

I'm still lost on where Marriage of Gravity is used in this technique

on the drop with the elbow. its time frame is minute.

 

[Goldendragon7]

more, more.....

:asian:

 

[Klondike93]

I think I need a better of understanding of it. I'm thinking it could only happen if your body is dropping (the outward hand sword in delayed sword is what I'm equating it to). Help me out here I don't see where my body drops.



:asian:

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Klondike93

I think I need a better of understanding of it. I'm thinking it could only happen if your body is dropping (the outward hand sword in delayed sword is what I'm equating it to). Help me out here I don't see where my body drops.



:asian:

Okay-

Hows about every time you hit a stance. GM works every time you step... You being a martial artist will manipulate it for maximum potential.

Better?

 

[Klondike93]

Ok, I see what you mean.


The light bulb has come on, thank you.


:asian:

 

[Rainman]

You're welcome


:asian:

 

[jazkiljok]

i'm unclear on what folks here are referring to as rooting?

i only understand this as a chuanfa term and is associated with the internal side of the arts- the most outwardly expresssion of that is the "unmovable" postures- such as people attempting to push you over from a sitting position or pick you up in a horse stance, etc...- rooting is considered a "state of being" for lack of better description in which your connection to the earth is enhanced incredibly, your balance and stability firm as a strong tree.

in the instance it has been used- i read that Rainman say that he roots when in a cat stance. and of course those who disagree with this.

is this the meaning that everyone is using or is this a different "root"?

 

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by Klondike93

I think I need a better of understanding of it. I'm thinking it could only happen if your body is dropping (the outward hand sword in delayed sword is what I'm equating it to). Help me out here I don't see where my body drops.



:asian:

Gravitational Marriage is force applied on a vertical or diagonal plane.

Alot of todays Kenpo students relate this particular power principle only to movements in which their body drops or settles, but it also applies to other movements. The looping overhead back knuckle strike contained in the fourth sequence of Flashing Mace is a good example of this.

FLASHING MACE (Front right stepthrough punch)

1. Standing naturally, step to 11:00 with your left foot into a left neutral bow as you deliver a left inward block to the outside of your opponent's right arm (at or above his elbow). Simultaneous with the block, cock your right hand above your right shoulder (palm out). Be sure to have your left knee positionally check your opponent's right knee.

2. Immediately step through with your right foot toward 10:30 into a transitional right neutral bow as you deliver a right inward diagonal back knuckle rake to your opponent's right cheek bone or temple. While striking, have your left hand in a positional check. (Your opponent's head should be driven back).

3. Without hesitation, pivot counterclockwise 180 degrees and strike to your opponent's right lower ribcage with a left outward horizontal back knuckle. In the same motion, have your right hand execute an inward heel palm bracing angle check to your opponent's right upper arm. (Your opponent should bend forward at the waist.)

4. Follow up with a left upward hooking check (your left hand looks like a waiter carrying a tray) on top of your opponent's right arm. As you drop into a left wide kneel stance, continue the motion of your right arm and without loss of motion, have your right hand circle counterclockwise as you loop a right overhead back knuckle strike to your opponent's face or left temple. Be sure to utilize Marriage of Gravity when executing this strike. (Your opponent's head should snap back.)

5. Left front crossover and cover out toward 10:30.

The collision created by having your opponent's head descend into your back knuckle is defined as Borrowed Force or Opposing Forces. Never the less, the descention of your opponent's upper body is assisted by gravity, and your looping overhead back knuckle strike (if properly executed) should be travelling on a vertical plane to meet your opponent's face (or temple) while it is descending... Therefore, Gravitational Marriage is the key component to this move.

To me Gravitational Marriage dosn't neccessarily mean that you're dropping your weight into your attacker... or settling (or rooting) into your stance, it can also apply in situations which involve you using your opponent's weight against him.

Hope this helps,
Billy

P.S. The definition of Flashing Mace, as it is written above, was taken (word for word) from the I.K.K.A. Blue Belt Manual which was published by Ed Parker Sr. in 1987.

 

[jazkiljok]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear



Gravitational Marriage is force applied on a vertical or diagonal plane.


To me Gravitational Marriage dosn't neccessarily mean that you're dropping your weight into your attacker... or settling (or rooting) into your stance, it can also apply in situations which involve you using your opponent's weight against him.

Hope this helps,
Billy

are you using "rooting" interchangeably with settling? is everyone else doing the same?

just trying to follow the conversation.

thanks for all clarification.

:asian:

ps- i think that borrowed force is your more appropriate term in that instance - - unless you want to add the concept and terminology of "reverse gravitational marriage" - a some what debated term that does essentially means borrowed force on a diagnol or vertical plane.

terms aren't the thing itself- they are ways of communicating ideas and concepts- gravitational marriage to have any real meaning does need to stay within a certain boundary of use or it will be void of any clear meaning. this is not to say that elements of gravitational marriage aren't being applied to your scenario-

just one more opinion.

 

[WilliamTLear]

There is no such thing as reverse gravitational marriage, becuase there is no such thing as reverse gravity... You either have gravity, or you don't. Although I understand where you are comming from.

Take Care,
Billy

P.S. I would guess that the term rooting and settling are the same concept.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear

There is no such thing as reverse gravitational marriage, becuase there is no such thing as reverse gravity... You either have gravity, or you don't. Although I understand where you are comming from.

Take Care,
Billy

P.S. I would guess that the term rooting and settling are the same concept.

I guess this is one of the principles that people argue? I've heard
of reverse gravitational marriage before, and the fact that it does
or doesn't exist is plausible on both sides of the argument IMO.
Is there a principle then, for a vertical upward movement? I
would say, it has to be a named principal. If you bend in a deep
stance, and stand almost straight up when executing a vertical
downward upward strike (say an uppercut), you're putting more
power behind the strike, just like torquing for a horizontal strike.
Or am I way off base here?

 

[WilliamTLear]

Originally posted by Kirk



I guess this is one of the principles that people argue? I've heard
of reverse gravitational marriage before, and the fact that it does
or doesn't exist is plausible on both sides of the argument IMO.
Is there a principle then, for a vertical upward movement? I
would say, it has to be a named principal. If you bend in a deep
stance, and stand almost straight up when executing a vertical
downward upward strike (say an uppercut), you're putting more
power behind the strike, just like torquing for a horizontal strike.
Or am I way off base here?

The vertical upward movement to which you are reffering is still considered Gravitational Marriage.

Let me ask you this... If you set a spear in the ground and your opponent jumped off of a wall and impaled himself on the spear, would you call it Reverse Gravitational Marriage or Gravitational Marriage?

Take Care,
Billy

 

[fanged_seamus]

FROM KIRK:
If you bend in a deep stance, and stand almost straight up when executing a vertical downward upward strike (say an uppercut), you're putting more power behind the strike, just like torquing for a horizontal strike.

Isn't this principle closer to Back-Up Mass rather than Gravitational Marriage?

Back Up Mass requires that you channel your weight and motion in the same direction as the strike (in this case, vertically as your center of gravity moves up). Gravitational Marriage would require your opponent to be moving down (unless you want to argue a physics "frame of reference" thing).

To me, Gravitational Marriage requires the center of gravity of the attacker or defender to be moving down. In the case of the center of gravity moving up, I'd say Back Up Mass is the principle.

Just my thoughts. Attach value as you see fit....

Tad Finnegan

 

[eternalwhitebelt]

Or to keep it simple, you could just call it backup mass. The two are the same thing, just on different planes, one vertical, one horizontal.

 

[jazkiljok]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear

There is no such thing as reverse gravitational marriage, becuase there is no such thing as reverse gravity... You either have gravity, or you don't. Although I understand where you are comming from.

Take Care,
Billy

P.S. I would guess that the term rooting and settling are the same concept.

Actually this discussion is simply the point I’m trying to make- there is less consensus on the meaning of terms then one would think.

If you try to explain this term GM to some one in physics by the way, they will only give you an amused look. I mean it only means something to us who’ve seen the concept in the context of the martial arts.

Now I’m not here to debate usage of Reverse GM- when I defined the term you were able to understand what it meant (btw please feel free to criticize Ed Parker- i've had it on good authority that he was the first to circulate its use).

It’s again as I said not the terms themselves but what we agree that they mean that’s important. And of course only important to a conversation and as a means to convey information.

As for rooting and settling- good example again- not the same from where I come from. Rooting is an internal arts term and it can be employed while sitting, standing, walking or on one foot and yes fighting. time duration doesn’t matter, so transitional footwork doesn't alter this ability if learned.

In the previous posts I could easily see two people talking about something that though appearing similar, are really quite different in nature.

Did they both mean rooting or did they mean settling?

I really don’t know. Do you?

Peace