Locked Wing...

[kenpo3631]

What Power Principle (PP) is employed in the delivery of the outward elbow strike.

The same question holds true for the Left Uppercut arm break. :asian:

 

[Scott Bonner]

Feels like Torque to me.

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Scott Bonner

Feels like Torque to me.

Why torque?

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by kenpo3631



Why torque?

I forgot to ask. Which strike are you refering to? Both or just one?

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by kenpo3631

What Power Principle (PP) is employed in the delivery of the outward elbow strike.

The same question holds true for the Left Uppercut arm break. :asian:

Rotational torque, body momentum, gravitational marriage and focus (mind body breath), timing, accuracy and speed- along with placement, position, and structural alignment... for both.

Here's one for you- What kind of power?


:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

Rotational torque, body momentum, gravitational marriage and focus (mind body breath), timing, accuracy and speed- along with placement, position, and structural alignment... for both.

That's great! However I just wanted the MAIN power principle for those strikes.

focus (mind body breath), timing, accuracy and speed- along with placement, position, and structural alignment

These have nothing to do with the underlying power principle although they do help you to get the job done.

body momentum, gravitational marriage

I thought gravitational marriage was a division of body momentum?

Here's one for you- What kind of power?

The power to make the strike work. Power is derived from the power principles. :asian:

 

[Rainman]

That's great! However I just wanted the MAIN power principle for those strikes

There are no main power principles

These have nothing to do with the underlying power principle although they do help you to get the job done.

yes they do otherwise I would not have posted them.

I thought gravitational marriage was a division of body momentum?

in this case gravity aids vertically mometum aids horizontally with the torque factor.

The power to make the strike work. Power is derived from the power principles

Intermittent power= occurs at the moment of rooting is the culmination of focus

:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

There are no main power principles

No? heard of marriage of gravity, torque, and back up mass? Those are the three main ways to create power.

focus (mind body breath), timing, accuracy and speed- along with placement, position, and structural alignment ---yes they do otherwise I would not have posted them.

I don't doubt that these principles will accentuate the strike, but I still say they are derivitives of the underlying power principle.

in this case gravity aids vertically mometum aids horizontally with the torque factor.

You lost me on that one....

 

[Rainman]

No? heard of marriage of gravity, torque, and back up mass? Those are the three main ways to create power.

They don't create power- They are conduits of power... meaning they carry and help to release it and or magnify it.

You lost me on that one....

Okay, Let me try this- Momentum goes in all directions and works with all the conduits of power. In passive power- gravity and rooting is not used. An example could be striking while not rooted.

The underlying power principle: A point of reference would be more accurate. The lists of things working together is very long. The minor things I pointed out are the most important to me as far as controlling and understanding my actions. The most extreme power comes from focus. All the other stuff (besides alignment-very important-there is your backup mass and rooting built in) occur anyways.

 

[kenpo3631]

They don't create power- They are conduits of power... meaning they carry and help to release it and or magnify it.

These principles were defined by Mr. Parker so that we would be standardized. Term "Rooting", as you defined it is nothing more than what Mr. Parker termed as "Settling your base". "Passive power"...How can you have "passive power"? The word power as defined in the dictionary as a verb is:

transitive senses
1 : to supply with power and especially motive power
2 : to give impetus to
intransitive senses
1 : to move about by means of motive power
2 : to move with great speed or force

"to move with great speed and force"... So how do you get "passive power".

This is just how I think...:asian:

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by kenpo3631



These principles were defined by Mr. Parker so that we would be standardized. Term "Rooting", as you defined it is nothing more than what Mr. Parker termed as "Settling your base". "Passive power"...How can you have "passive power"? The word power as defined in the dictionary as a verb is:

transitive senses
1 : to supply with power and especially motive power
2 : to give impetus to
intransitive senses
1 : to move about by means of motive power
2 : to move with great speed or force

"to move with great speed and force"... So how do you get "passive power".

This is just how I think...:asian:

Great inquiry:

Minor moves used to position and set up. Another example would be striking inbetween stances such as darting mace. If action was stopped the transitional cat could act as a rooting point. However momentum (in the form of directional harmony) carries you forward. Absence of settling and rooting-

Got interupted lost my train of thought does- this make better sense? If it doesn't hopefully it will lead to further discussion and questions.

:asian:

 

[jazkiljok]

marriage of gravity is a "concept " that uses many of the principles that rainman is listing.

it is not a principle in and of itself.

at least that's what it says in Parker's Insights book.

so perhaps that's a part of communication problem here.

(or, uhmm, should the rest of us just stay out of this one?...)

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by jazkiljok

marriage of gravity is a "concept " that uses many of the principles that rainman is listing.

it is not a principle in and of itself.

at least that's what it says in Parker's Insights book.

so perhaps that's a part of communication problem here.

(or, uhmm, should the rest of us just stay out of this one?...)

By all means jump right in- Gravitational marriage is a universal law always working just can be enhanced or manipulated to our benefit... and welcome jaz k

 

[kenpo3631]

So are you saying that "passive power" = Minor moves used to position and set up? I thought we termed those as "transitions" or simply "minor moves"?

Another example would be striking inbetween stances such as darting mace. If action was stopped the transitional cat could act as a rooting point. However momentum (in the form of directional harmony) carries you forward. Absence of settling and rooting-

First...why would you want to stop in the middle of a self defense technique???

You cannot "root" in a cat stance. Well...let me rephrase that. You can, but would you really want to? It is a transitional stance as are all others. The only stance that is not a transition is the Neutral Bow.

Directional Harmony, and I am para-phrasing here, is when everything is in alignment and moving in correlation with each other in the same direction. I do not dispute that you technique example has this. However, what is making that heelpalm hurt so much? Making it so devastating? It is your weight in line with your strike on a horizontal plane... better known as "Back Up Mass".

So can you see what I mean when I say by the "Underlying Power Principle" :asian:

 

[Rainman]

So are you saying that "passive power" = Minor moves used to position and set up? I thought we termed those as "transitions" or simply "minor moves"?

No- a cutout example- I don't use that term.

First...why would you want to stop in the middle of a self defense technique???

You don't- but in the process of examining a combination you may specifically look at each movement and what is does and some of its workings.

You cannot "root" in a cat stance. Well...let me rephrase that. You can, but would you really want to? It is a transitional stance as are all others. The only stance that is not a transition is the Neutral Bow.

Yes you can- checking the storm- for the strike-grab-control with the extended outward block. I am offline(by step drag or whatever) and out of the power zone but momentarily rooted in the cat for stability-

Directional Harmony, and I am para-phrasing here, is when everything is in alignment and moving in correlation with each other in the same direction. I do not dispute that you technique example has this. However, what is making that heelpalm hurt so much? Making it so devastating? It is your weight in line with your strike on a horizontal plane... better known as "Back Up Mass".

Alignment- back up mass- gravitational marriage- torque- directional harmony- and lotsa other things. Focus is the culmination of all these things on impact. Unification is what I trying to convey. These things all work with each other simultaneously for the best results.

Yes I know what you are saying- Why? Because I was using things in that context for a long time. Optimum results mean all things working on impact. Make sense?

:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

Yes you can- checking the storm- for the strike-grab-control with the extended outward block. I am offline(by step drag or whatever) and out of the power zone but momentarily rooted in the cat for stability-

The term transition as dfined below:

1 a : passage from one state, stage, subject, or place to another : CHANGE b : a movement, development, or evolution from one form, stage, or style to another.

Is right on the money with what you are saying. You are moving from one point to another. However in Kenpo transitions for the most part are temporary. "Rooting" in a cat, to me is very unstable, you can do it, butI wouldn't recommend it.

As far as "Strike-grab-control" is concerned, if you can strike a moving arm in the case of Checking the Storm, good for you. My main concern would be to break him at the waist to control his height, hence the name "checking the storm"...

Why? Because I was using things in that context for a long time. Optimum results mean all things working on impact

That is true.

 

[Rainman]

Is right on the money with what you are saying. You are moving from one point to another. However in Kenpo transitions for the most part are temporary. "Rooting" in a cat, to me is very unstable, you can do it, butI wouldn't recommend it.

An example of intermittent power- same as used in freestyle and hitting on the move.

As far as "Strike-grab-control" is concerned, if you can strike a moving arm in the case of Checking the Storm, good for you. My main concern would be to break him at the waist to control his height, hence the name "checking the storm"...

Look up block.

1 a : passage from one state, stage, subject, or place to another : CHANGE b : a movement, development, or evolution from one form, stage, or style to another.

There are many transitional strikes to go along or coincide with the feet when they are in transition. Passive power not rooted... not really especially for the point I am trying to make.

Did you get some new ideas?

:asian:

 

[eternalwhitebelt]

Great discussion so far. Rainman, I too disagree with some of your use of terminology. I do not think it is possibe to root in a cat stance. Checking the storm not withstanding could you further explain why you think you have established your base while in a cat stance? The order is base, control, technique. Exceptions are always present ofcourse, as in the example you gave. I just defy you to resist any type of energy exerted on you while in a cat stance.

 

[Rainman]

Got busy again-

Okay- an excellent observation. Using opposites and reverses what can you tell me?

 

[eternalwhitebelt]

I don't think we are on the same page. I think you are explaining checking the storm as strike, grab, control. I think we are disagreeing on use of vocabulary. To me the strike is the control because you are inside the opponent, therefore you check his height zone with the kick. In general terms every good system follows the order balance, control, technque. In AK terms balance is defined as establish your base. You picked an excellent technique to discuss this on. This tells me you know what you are doing. The first move transitions to a cat stance so our base is not strongly established. I do not teach to grab the weapon or the hand on the downward strike I do not think that is possible. I teach a follow up on the horizontal plane that comes and makes contact after we are transitioning out of our twist stance and into another strike and a stronger base. I think this technique could be discussed all day. Do you study AK because you seem to be using terms in a different manner than most?