Last Poster #6

[granfire]

If I were ever going to write a book, it would be about my days in security, much more there. But I am not going to write a book

party pooper!

 

[Xue Sheng]

I've had some interesting interviews in my day. One of which came full circle. I submitted a resume to a place for a job, was being interviewed, and the woman interview person was looking over my resume and said to me, "So, what do you want to be when you grow up?" I was forty years old. I said, "Excuse me?" She smirked. I politely ended the interview right there, got up and left.

Flash forward some years, I'm a Federal cop and guess who shows up at my facility and needs to be escorted and helped? That very same woman. She didn't recognize me, and why should she, our interview was thirty seconds long. I had somebody sign her in and I snuck off and called my boss, who she was about to see.

I guess he started off with "You didn't recognize the officer that escorted you in here did you? He's one of the best hires I ever made, one of my very best men"

Thirty seconds later she stormed out, red faced.

God, I so loved my boss.

I went on an interview at a car dealership, back when I was a mechanic. I handed the shop foreman my resume and he stood there looking at it, and the entire time he was reading it, he was making the raspberry sound, basically spitting all over it as he read. When he finished, he turned to say something to me and I immediately said, "Never mind, I don't think I want to work here" He looked shocked and went to hand my resume back to me, I said, "no, you can keep that" and I left

 

[dvcochran]

Scary thought. The funny thing is I ended up with a better job with the same company about a year later. Working for the same person who became a very good friend and mentor.

***EDIT: I just remembered, there was a man already working there when I started. Older man who pretty well stayed to himself. Happy and easygoing. Far and away the best fabricator I have every worked with. He truly could see how a project needed to be done without a lot of direction. We worked together for a couple of years, without a hiccup. Then he came in late several days over a period of months. I asked if everything was all right and he confided in me that he had started back drinking. He had been dry for 10 years, started dating one of the girls out on the floor and he said it started innocently enough with a glass of wine after dinner. Even more amazing is that was about 18 months ago and I never saw indication of drinking on the job until showing up late.
When Lanny drank he would binge for weeks, coming to work everyday and work admirably. Sadly it kept getting worse and worse. I offered to send him to rehab, but you would have to know him to know that is not his style. I had to let him go and he never had a bad word to say.
I kept up with Lanny for years after working together and helped his son Lanny Jr. find work. Unfortunately Lanny never wanted to get the monkey off his back again, and eventually the lifestyle caught up with him.

 

[granfire]

***EDIT: I just remembered, there was a man already working there when I started. Older man who pretty well stayed to himself. Happy and easygoing. Far and away the best fabricator I have every worked with. He truly could see how a project needed to be done without a lot of direction. We worked together for a couple of years, without a hiccup. Then he came in late several days over a period of months. I asked if everything was all right and he confided in me that he had started back drinking. He had been dry for 10 years, started dating one of the girls out on the floor and he said it started innocently enough with a glass of wine after dinner. Even more amazing is that was about 18 months ago and I never saw indication of drinking on the job until showing up late.
When Lanny drank he would binge for weeks, coming to work everyday and work admirably. Sadly it kept getting worse and worse. I offered to send him to rehab, but you would have to know him to know that is not his style. I had to let him go and he never had a bad word to say.
I kept up with Lanny for years after working together and helped his son Lanny Jr. find work. Unfortunately Lanny never wanted to get the monkey off his back again, and eventually the lifestyle caught up with him.

that is so sad!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Donut spares most definitely do screw with ABS, electronic transmissions, and lots more. Very possibly something triggered by the spare.

Yeah, it's still my best theory. I hate donut spares, especially as they've continually gotten smaller in both directions. My old Mercedes has a full-size spare. I've used it 3 times, and been glad of it every time. Once, I had a flat in Baltimore and was able to drive all the way home to NC on my decent spare, then go to my usual shop for replacement.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Guy looks at his watch. Oh, man, ice coffee all over my computer now, right out my nose.

That needs to be in a movie.....guy looks at his watch. Priceless.

I don't know. In a movie, I'm not sure I'd believe it. Some things that really happen are just too stupid for a movie.

 

[pdg]

Yeah, it's still my best theory. I hate donut spares, especially as they've continually gotten smaller in both directions. My old Mercedes has a full-size spare. I've used it 3 times, and been glad of it every time. Once, I had a flat in Baltimore and was able to drive all the way home to NC on my decent spare, then go to my usual shop for replacement.

They're generally called "space saver" spares over here, the idea being they take up less cargo space...

Oddly, quite a few cars mount the spare underneath and have plenty of space available, but still whack a BMX wheel under there.

I've put a full sized spare under mine.


They're still better than what is now becoming the norm though - a bottle of puncture repair spray and a mini compressor. I've had a couple of sidewall slices on rocks (land rover, going off-road) and I don't see a can of slime helping much with that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

They're generally called "space saver" spares over here, the idea being they take up less cargo space...

Oddly, quite a few cars mount the spare underneath and have plenty of space available, but still whack a BMX wheel under there.

I've put a full sized spare under mine.


They're still better than what is now becoming the norm though - a bottle of puncture repair spray and a mini compressor. I've had a couple of sidewall slices on rocks (land rover, going off-road) and I don't see a can of slime helping much with that.

Yeah, I don't think I'd buy a car (given a choice) without a spare of some sort. The Hobbit's car stores the spare under the cargo area (inside, under the flooring), and has ALMOST enough room for the full-sized tire. You could cram a bunch of loose cargo around the spare (you'd have to lift the flooring to access it), but can't replace it with a full-size spare. That seems like the worst of both worlds, to me.

 

[dvcochran]

In places with a lot of interstate system they make no sense. They are rated at 55 mph max speed. Most of the interstates in the US have a posted speed limit of 70 mph and at least half the traffic is going 80, so a car hobbling at 55 is certainly a road hazard.
A couple months ago my wife curbed a tire in Nashville. I was not too far away and changed the tire. We traded vehicles and to stay off the interstate I had to travel an extra 40-45 miles so I was way over the "50 mile" donut recommendation. I think it is all about the car companies building a cheaper car.

 

[pdg]

As to the question in hand though, I have a few thoughts...

Unless there's a really extreme difference in the diameter of the tyre, a space saver won't mess with abs - there's more of a rotational differential when going around a corner. It may make the abs ever so slightly more or less prone to activate, but that means a skid, not no brakes.

Especially if fitted to the rear...

It's possible that the abs ECU recognised the difference as a slight under rotation - which would usually translate to a vibration in the pedal. The only time it would leave no braking is if the modulator is faulty.

You could do an almost useful test by finding an area with a loose or slippery surface (gravel/grass etc.) with a decent runoff space and trying to get the abs to activate - if the modulator is at fault it may well show up there - unless it's intermittent.

Or get it on a (manufacturer specific) diagnostic and see if there's any stored faults relating to the braking system?

Brakes are really quite important - even a one time event like this I wouldn't be happy until a decent investigation has been done - and a bit of a look and drive about wouldn't cut it for me...

Was the car driven between fitting the toy spare and this happening? Did the pedal have a different feel to usual when it happened (increased travel, harder to press, easier to press, spongy)?

 

[pdg]

I think it is all about the car companies building a cheaper car.

Totally, even though it's pennies difference per car...

I was way over the "50 mile" donut recommendation

That's not a consideration for the tyre (if you're not aware).

The distance and speed recommendations are much more for the transmission than the tyre - the constant rotation speed difference puts more strain on the diff (and it's oil) which is often shared with the gearbox - and it's worse for an auto than a manual.

There's also the issue of an increased risk of torque/brake steer happening - safer (imo) to always put the toy on the rear even if it means playing musical wheels.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Pursuing the page today, without logging in....and I think I know why some of the old time MT folks left.... they got tired of the same old argument or claim or style bashing....over and over again....different people, same arguments

 

[dvcochran]

Totally, even though it's pennies difference per car...



That's not a consideration for the tyre (if you're not aware).

The distance and speed recommendations are much more for the transmission than the tyre - the constant rotation speed difference puts more strain on the diff (and it's oil) which is often shared with the gearbox - and it's worse for an auto than a manual.

There's also the issue of an increased risk of torque/brake steer happening - safer (imo) to always put the toy on the rear even if it means playing musical wheels.

Informative. All the more reason to discontinue their use.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yeah, I don't think I'd buy a car (given a choice) without a spare of some sort. The Hobbit's car stores the spare under the cargo area (inside, under the flooring), and has ALMOST enough room for the full-sized tire. You could cram a bunch of loose cargo around the spare (you'd have to lift the flooring to access it), but can't replace it with a full-size spare. That seems like the worst of both worlds, to me.

Meh. Sometimes they just don't make sense.
My the wheels/tires on my Vette are staggered. The rears are larger in both diameter and width. You'd have to carry TWO spares, for a car in which you'd be hard pressed to find room for one.

 

[AngryHobbit]

If I were ever going to write a book, it would be about my days in security, much more there. But I am not going to write a book

Why not?

 

[AngryHobbit]

Thanks, Hobbit my pal.

The darn fire is still burning. The airport is still crazy because of it. Just spoke to a guy who told me the TSA line is out the door, across the terminal and well into the parking lot. I've never seen that before.

Sure glad I ain't working today. But I am wiping soot off of everything in the house. Had a tough workout earlier, going to be sore tomorrow.....but, now there is beer to drink.

Let me know if we need to figure out how to airlift you. We've got home-made pickles to go with your beer - and I am making more tomorrow.

 

[AngryHobbit]

Donut spares most definitely do screw with ABS, electronic transmissions, and lots more. Very possibly something triggered by the spare.

Well, here is a big question - should I contact GM about this? Is there a bulletin out? I've driven with a spare on my old car down that driveway before - and the breaks worked fine. So, this should not be happening.

 

[AngryHobbit]

I've had some interesting interviews in my day. One of which came full circle. I submitted a resume to a place for a job, was being interviewed, and the woman interview person was looking over my resume and said to me, "So, what do you want to be when you grow up?" I was forty years old. I said, "Excuse me?" She smirked. I politely ended the interview right there, got up and left.

Flash forward some years, I'm a Federal cop and guess who shows up at my facility and needs to be escorted and helped? That very same woman. She didn't recognize me, and why should she, our interview was thirty seconds long. I had somebody sign her in and I snuck off and called my boss, who she was about to see.

I guess he started off with "You didn't recognize the officer that escorted you in here did you? He's one of the best hires I ever made, one of my very best men"

Thirty seconds later she stormed out, red faced.

God, I so loved my boss.

Ooooh.... a little karmic catch-up. Love it!

 

[AngryHobbit]

Guy looks at his watch. Oh, man, ice coffee all over my computer now, right out my nose.

That needs to be in a movie.....guy looks at his watch. Priceless.

Same here. This is EPIC!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

As to the question in hand though, I have a few thoughts...

Unless there's a really extreme difference in the diameter of the tyre, a space saver won't mess with abs - there's more of a rotational differential when going around a corner. It may make the abs ever so slightly more or less prone to activate, but that means a skid, not no brakes.

Especially if fitted to the rear...

It's possible that the abs ECU recognised the difference as a slight under rotation - which would usually translate to a vibration in the pedal. The only time it would leave no braking is if the modulator is faulty.

You could do an almost useful test by finding an area with a loose or slippery surface (gravel/grass etc.) with a decent runoff space and trying to get the abs to activate - if the modulator is at fault it may well show up there - unless it's intermittent.

Or get it on a (manufacturer specific) diagnostic and see if there's any stored faults relating to the braking system?

Brakes are really quite important - even a one time event like this I wouldn't be happy until a decent investigation has been done - and a bit of a look and drive about wouldn't cut it for me...

Was the car driven between fitting the toy spare and this happening? Did the pedal have a different feel to usual when it happened (increased travel, harder to press, easier to press, spongy)?

The difference in the tire sizes is pretty dramatic. And my thought is that if ABS activates when there's no skid, well, what ABS does is release the brakes to end the skid. So, if it's entirely confused, it seems it could (not sure if it's possible in the programming, but seems possible) release the brakes at an inopportune moment just as you need to brake.

I really can't think of what else would have cause that momentary failure, when nothing shows up on a visual inspection and the brakes operate fine afterwards.