Kyusho Jitsu

[Cruentus]

Yup...if you slam on any one of the arteries on the side of the neck, you'll knock em' out. Does doing so mean I am an effective preassure point fighter, or just an effective fighter?

heh...I have a good pressure point technique. There is a pressure point on the tip of the front teeth. If you slam them with a baseball bat, then it will cause teeth to come loose, the head to jerk back clipping the arteries that run up the back of the neck, causing unconsiousness. Pretty neat preassure point technique, huh. Now....if I could just learn to do that with an invisable bat.... :uhyeah:

 

[ppko]

Matt,

With all due respect my friend you are a freak:wink1: .....in a good way that is.......I don't meet too many people that ask to be pounded on just to see what happens. I remember when you came to my dojo in Kamakura and left with a bunch of black, blue and eventually yellow marks.....you're a sick puppy:ultracool


Anyway, ......folks the "love tap" to the side of the neck that DKI and other so called Kyusho people call a "kyusho point" in fact is NOT a kyusho point at all.......and here is why. Kyusho jutsu uses areas...rather large ones I might add.
Accupuncture points are small.....the largest is about the size of a No2 pencil eraser. Not easy to hit with a fist about the size of a baseball or larger. Also, there must half a dozen Accupuncture points in the general area where one's hand strikes the neck to induce the previously mentioned KO. These accupuncture points include, but are not llimited to the following: LI 18, LI17, SI 16 & 17, SJ　１６＆17, ST 9, ....my fist is pretty average size for a western male and if I try to KO someone doing the "neck whack" I hit about 4 to 5 of the mentioned accupuncture points each time I strike.......and not always the same ones depending on my angle of attack.....the KO is ACTUALLY caused by the attackers brain slaping around in his skull just as if he was hit on the chin. However, this doesn't sound exotic or mystical as saying "well I use a combination of LI18 and ST9 to KO people"....it just does'nt pull in the potenial "customers" if you say "I gave him a good swat and his brain got bruised".
I dont ever recall my teacher calling this a Kyusho strike per say but rather an Atemi strike which is different.
It was people like Dillman that didnt stick around long enough or train hard enough to learn what was really happening and just thought it was a kyusho strike and thereby perpetuated the wrong name for that technique....once again misleading the MA population. Too bad Dillman wanted to be a "master" before ever becoming a "true" student (but that has been the way of many people in the MA) Which would explain why Dillman cant KO people that are standing stone still sometimes.....believe me nobody is imune to getting KOed if its done properly....now we have a lot of folks spreading the same BS that Dillman did.....and I see now it has gone on to "Yoda-esque" sort of nonsense with Kia Jutsu, No-touch KOs (I am begging someone to try that on me telling me its a viable self-defense technique) and what not........it gets goofier by the minute. I dont know how it can getting any dumber but I am sure it will.

Rouuselot,
Evidently, you have no idea what you are talking about the area of activation for a pressure point is about the size of a quarter. It's people like you that keep the martial arts a kids art, you have done nothing but down DKI since I started this thread, and I sense some jelousy. If your art is so great than why have some other students that trained with oyata come to DKI. I have said before that I have a great deal of respect for Oyata, but just because you have no idea what you are talking about you make his whole group look bad.

PPKO

 

[Flatlander]

Rouuselot,
It's people like you that keep the martial arts a kids art

PPKO

That's a peculiar viewpoint. Do you percieve the martial arts this way? Do you think that the majority of people who dedicate their lives to the propagation and understanding of their arts as children?

I'm happy for you that you have found a system and instructor with which you can identify, but keep in mind that the people you are talking to here are not children, and take their arts very seriously. If you want to make claims that others will question, you need to be able to back them up with some sort of evidence. Snoop around this forum and read all the different threads, and critically think about the posts you read. Many of these people understand very well the topics that they choose to discuss, and tend not to throw out comments because they can't think of anything better to say. This should be a constructive excercise. It is a place to share ideas. Not somewhere to toss around useless or unfounded opinions.

Please note Rrousselot said "Accupuncture points are small.....the largest is about the size of a No2 pencil eraser. "

You then countered "Evidently, you have no idea what you are talking about the area of activation for a pressure point is about the size of a quarter."

Notice that you have argued about a different topic. Specifically I see Rrousselot discussing accupuncture points. You are not.

If you want me or anyone else to consider your ideas credible, I would suggest reading people's posts carefully prior to responding. It's difficult enough trying to get a point across in this medium of type and smilies.

 

[ppko]

That's a peculiar viewpoint. Do you percieve the martial arts this way? Do you think that the majority of people who dedicate their lives to the propagation and understanding of their arts as children?

I'm happy for you that you have found a system and instructor with which you can identify, but keep in mind that the people you are talking to here are not children, and take their arts very seriously. If you want to make claims that others will question, you need to be able to back them up with some sort of evidence. Snoop around this forum and read all the different threads, and critically think about the posts you read. Many of these people understand very well the topics that they choose to discuss, and tend not to throw out comments because they can't think of anything better to say. This should be a constructive excercise. It is a place to share ideas. Not somewhere to toss around useless or unfounded opinions.

Please note Rrousselot said "Accupuncture points are small.....the largest is about the size of a No2 pencil eraser. "

You then countered "Evidently, you have no idea what you are talking about the area of activation for a pressure point is about the size of a quarter."

Notice that you have argued about a different topic. Specifically I see Rrousselot discussing accupuncture points. You are not.

If you want me or anyone else to consider your ideas credible, I would suggest reading people's posts carefully prior to responding. It's difficult enough trying to get a point across in this medium of type and smilies.

Rouuselot has done nothing but dismiss everthing I have learned, I in no way meant to disrespect everyone here but I do have a problem when I do not provoke any attacks and get attacked, I have no problem with most people in here and I realize there are a lot of knowledgable martial artist in here and respect most of you. I am sorry if I came accross in the wrong light, if you go back through this thread you would see why I am so defensive when it comes to rouuselot. Like I said before I am sorry if I offended anyone that was not meant to be offended. I believe that many of you run great schools but there are a few that give the martial arts a bad name.

PPKO

 

[Flatlander]

No problem pp, I am in no way offended. But I think it would be beneficial for you to put some thoughtful analysis into the posts before you question the validity of others statements. I, for one, have posted previously in this thread that I have no knowledge of the Dillman system. Therefore, I choose not to comment one way or the other, rather, I would prefer to ask questions so as to embiggen myself in a cromulent way.

:asian:

 

[ppko]

No problem pp, I am in no way offended. But I think it would be beneficial for you to put some thoughtful analysis into the posts before you question the validity of others statements. I, for one, have posted previously in this thread that I have no knowledge of the Dillman system. Therefore, I choose not to comment one way or the other, rather, I would prefer to ask questions so as to embiggen myself in a cromulent way.

:asian:

I don't question many peoples statements only those that I find not to be as knowledgeable as they propose they are.

Thank You
PPKO

 

[RRouuselot]

Rouuselot,
Evidently, you have no idea what you are talking about the area of activation for a pressure point is about the size of a quarter.
PPKO

Oh Really??



Hmmmm I seem to recall Graduating from a very well respected school of Acupuncture here in Japan in 1994…and am licensed to practice here in Japan…I also seem to remember studying for many years as a direct student from one of the foremost authorities in the field of Kyusho Jutsu and Atemi Jutsu….not to mention Okinawan Karate



You are right I am totally clueless…..please disregard anything I have said thus far….I am sure you have far superior credentials

 

[ppko]

Oh Really??



Hmmmm I seem to recall Graduating from a very well respected school of Acupuncture here in Japan in 1994…and am licensed to practice here in Japan…I also seem to remember studying for many years as a direct student from one of the foremost authorities in the field of Kyusho Jutsu and Atemi Jutsu….not to mention Okinawan Karate



You are right I am totally clueless…..please disregard anything I have said thus far….I am sure you have far superior credentials

I do not bash your teacher and I just ask that you don't bash mine you are the one that has started this whole charade and I would just like to leave it where it is. I am man enough to not talk about your teacher, or you anymore if you are man enough to do the same.

PPKO

 

[RRouuselot]

I do not bash your teacher and I just ask that you don't bash mine you are the one that has started this whole charade and I would just like to leave it where it is. I am man enough to not talk about your teacher, or you anymore if you are man enough to do the same.

PPKO

And what point would you "bash" him on????
Training hard? Walking it like he talks it? Having a pretty good skill level?
Being a leader in his community? Contributing about $10,000+ a year to various charities annually?


Persoanlly I think your teacher is a braggart, a Con-Man, dishonest and basically lacks integrity. The ideas/concepts he tries to propagate are often silly not to mention useless.

 

[ppko]

And what point would you "bash" him on????
Training hard? Walking it like he talks it? Having a pretty good skill level?
Being a leader in his community? Contributing about $10,000+ a year to various charities annually?


Persoanlly I think your teacher is a braggart, a Con-Man, dishonest and basically lacks integrity. The ideas/concepts he tries to propagate are often silly not to mention useless.

This comes from complete ignorance, you obviously have no clue of what you are saying, and like I said before I am man enough not to bash your sensie, could I ,yes, will I, no. I am not going to get into a p*ssing battle with you over how good your teacher is, or mine I realize that talking to you is like talking to someone that has never been in Martial Arts before and has no desire to truly learn real Martial Arts so I consider you a waste of time and I can only hope that everyone else can see that also. If anyone has any questions on pressure point fighting you can still ask me and I will give you a real answer.

PPKO

 

[Flatlander]

opcorn:


:argue:

 

[ppko]

opcorn:


:argue:

LOL couldn't have said it better

PPKO

 

[RRouuselot]

This comes from complete ignorance, you obviously have no clue of what you are saying, and like I said before I am man enough not to bash your sensie, could I ,yes, will I, no. I am not going to get into a p*ssing battle with you over how good your teacher is, or mine I realize that talking to you is like talking to someone that has never been in Martial Arts before and has no desire to truly learn real Martial Arts so I consider you a waste of time and I can only hope that everyone else can see that also. If anyone has any questions on pressure point fighting you can still ask me and I will give you a real answer.

PPKO

Is that so? I base my statements and opinions on actual facts.



I have followed the antics of George Dillman since 1984.

Thus far he has been misleading about his training.

Example: He claims to have gotten “Secret Scrolls” from Hohan Soken……..afraid not. Those scrolls are about as secret in MA circles as Time Magazine is in a Dentists office.

2) He never had extensive training with Hohan either.

3) He claims to have only been inspired by Mr. Oyata as far as Kyusho/tuite etc and says he learned it previously from others….when in actual fact his quote in 1984 Official Karate said it all…….Dillman says of the Kyusho/Tuite seminar Mr. Oyata held…..”it’s like nothing I have ever seen before”



No less than 4 people from the Dillman/Moneymaker ilk have stopped by my dojo…….all were handed their butts. Their techniques were ineffective, their concepts were silly, one 4th dan couldn’t last 1 round with one of my yellow belts. This 4th dan actually worked with one of my students and was asked on more than a few occasions to come and train again………..all were refused. Guess he wanted to tell everyone he was a 4th dan but didn’t want to actually have any skill to go with it…..

All in all my first hand experience with the Dillman ilk has been less than educational.





Thus far I have found your rebuttals to my comments on my actually first hand experience to be lacking in any real content. I have given you firsthand accounts of seeing Dillman people and having them in my dojo and all you can say is I don’t know what I am talking about, and have “never been in Martial Arts before”…&…. “no desire to truly learn real Martial Arts” …..based on the fact that you know nothing about my training experience I find that comment funny.

Especially since I have trained in Okinawan Karate for over 25+ years from someone who his kind of respected, taught at the Nippon Budokan, Kamakura Budokan, taught scores of Law Enforcement people as well as Military, and have trained in Katori Shinto Ryu from another respected MA, as well as trained in Judo from an Olympic Medalist, and also work out with a K-1 fighter (just for fun)……Have qualifications to actually practice Accupuncture as well ……I think the only logical reply to your statements would be “yeah right”
My knowledge of MA/Kyusho/Accupuncture pail in comparrison.......

As I said before........the Oyata Summer Seminar is coming up in July......feel free to drop by and enlighten any one with your "KiaJutsu" and whatever else you care to part with. I for one am always looking for some new and interesting technique that actually works......

 

[RRouuselot]

artyon: artyon:

 

[arnisador]

My mother had great kiai-jutsu technique...when she started yelling at me, I was struck still and couldn't say or do anything to defend myself!

 

[RRouuselot]

My mother had great kiai-jutsu technique...when she started yelling at me, I was struck still and couldn't say or do anything to defend myself!

Mine did too.......she said "wait until your father gets home"......I would be frozen like a bunny caught in the headlights....

 

[arnisador]

Sounds like they studied under the same teacher!

 

[RRouuselot]

Sounds like they studied under the same teacher!

Could be........my mother was a trained "smack-fu"

 

[Matt Stone]

I wanna get some before this thread gets locked... %-}

PPKO (Pressure Point Knock Out?) -

A few questions for you -

1) How old are you?

2) How long have you been training, consistently, in the techniques you now espouse?

3) Have you ever actually squared off at arm's reach (no farther) and had your training partner try to take your head off, and in so doing defended yourself successfully with either your alleged "kyushojutsu" or "kiaijutsu?"

4) If you answered "yes" to #3, can we get a copy of the video tape to prove this fact?

What's my point... Anybody?

PPKO cited Robert as being the kind of person that gives MA a bad name. I'd submit that it is not down to earth, "show me or blow me" attitudes that gives MA a bad name, but rather unethical hucksters who falsify their training backgrounds, promote themselves to ridiculous ranks in arts they never studied, and who lay claim to mysterious Jedi powers that undermine our collective credibility.

I have trained with Robert. This is no secret to anyone who has frequented MT for over a year. I am in his camp, in his corner, and will back whatever he says, however he chooses to say it. Why? Because the SOB has knocked me flat on my rather large backside on more than one occasion, and while I am nowhere near well skilled enough to consider myself an expert at anything, I'm no scruff either. When I try to take his head off, at arm's length, with random techniques, and at full tilt boogie Robert sends me headlong into the deck unable to think or breathe thanks to the pain he just inflicted, I count that as proof he knows his sh|t.

PPKO, you ain't earned that yet.

It is not conjecture, not fantasy, not fiction, that Georgie trained under Mr. Oyata for a brief period via seminar. Robert was there. My teacher (who was friends with Mr. Oyata once upon a time) was there as well. There are articles with George being slapped around like the new ***** in prison if you look far enough back in the archives. But I'm sure Mr. D. doesn't go out of his way to publish that kind of info - it takes away from his Jedi Master image.

It seems to me, with the benefit of around 4 or 5 years on different web boards now (maybe longer, I don't remember), and 18 years (God, am I that old???) of training, I notice that DKI folks tend to fall back into the same position when questioned about their training every single time... "You should stop criticizing my teacher. You are a bad person. You give MA a bad name." I remember DKIGirl, a former MT member, reciting the same litany when Robert called her videos into question (as well as her ability to use what she was teaching; she said that if George could do it, she could to - poor logic the likes of which I have yet to see since).

Instead of retreating immediately into a defensive position, PPKO, I'd suggest that you spend more time trying to qualify your statements rather than attack your detractors. It'd go a long way toward increasing my respect for you (at least).

But I don't know what I'm talking about, right?

Let's see what happens next. I'd really like to discuss "kyusho" and vital point striking, but not if it means I can't ask questions and I have to kowtow to someone's image and cult of personality...

%-}

Enjoy.

:asian:

 

[Bod]

RRouuselot says

.....the KO is ACTUALLY caused by the attackers brain slaping around in his skull just as if he was hit on the chin

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that all supposed ST9 knockouts are in essence the same as a jab on the chin knockout, or just that a practical knockout by a strike to the side of the neck is the same?

The reason that I ask is that I do a bit of judo, and the strangles are generally done best with knuckles in the side of the neck. Sometimes you get plenty of warning, you feel the blood pressure rise in your head and your vision going, and you tap. Every now and then though it goes so quickly you hardly have time to tap, you don't actually feel any pressure (though I did once hear a very loud electric buzzing), and stories abound of half second knockouts.

Now I was led to believe that this is the action of the pressure receptor in the carotid synapse, sending the blood pressure plummeting. It can't be oxygen starvation, as this would take about 10 seconds with a solid choke, maybe shorter if uke is fatigued.

Now the quick knockouts are definitely not the brain slapping around and don't appear to be simply the loss of blood supply to the brain. I wouldn't be surprised if they could be replicated by a tap to the side of the neck, though, with the difficulty of getting a blood choke on a pinned Uke let alone a 'half second choke' I know I'll be practising the brachial stun for the time being.