Kwans refused to be TKD

[terryl965]

Testing at my school is doing all the KKW requirements,Plus.
Part of the plus for instance is fourteen extra forms for first Dan,or poom.

Ok I understand at a school testing but at te KKW they only recognize the Tae Gueks for promotion. So how can somebody test there with another set of forms?

 

[dancingalone]

Ok I understand at a school testing but at te KKW they only recognize the Tae Gueks for promotion. So how can somebody test there with another set of forms?

This is for a 7th dan promotion test, right? Without reading any official requirements, I would expect to see something demoed other than a paint-by-numbers act at that level.

 

[leadleg]

Ok I understand at a school testing but at te KKW they only recognize the Tae Gueks for promotion. So how can somebody test there with another set of forms?

Since it is at 7th dan I suspect he tested in the US, you are correct with the testings held at KKW with the taegueks and yudanja forms.
I also think at school testings it is common to ask if there is anything else you would like to show us question after each category.

 

[terryl965]

This is for a 7th dan promotion test, right? Without reading any official requirements, I would expect to see something demoed other than a paint-by-numbers act at that level.

But a demo would not be a real componant of the requirements, I agree with what you are saying but dis-agree about what would be part of the actual test.

 

[dancingalone]

But a demo would not be a real componant of the requirements, I agree with what you are saying but dis-agree about what would be part of the actual test.

That's fine. You gotta go by whatever the rules say, whatever they are.

That said, I would think a demonstration of a historical chuan fa form from the kwan era would be a fine display at something as heady as a 7th dan promotional test. When a person attempts a masters or Ph.D. degree, they generally have to expand knowledge in their field through original research. I could see much of the same happening in martial arts by delving into other sources like chuan fa, etc.

 

[terryl965]

That's fine. You gotta go by whatever the rules say, whatever they are.

That said, I would think a demonstration of a historical chuan fa form from the kwan era would be a fine display at something as heady as a 7th dan promotional test. When a person attempts a masters or Ph.D. degree, they generally have to expand knowledge in their field through original research. I could see much of the same happening in martial arts by delving into other sources like chuan fa, etc.

Again I see your point and would agree if it was here in the states, but the op said he tested at the KKW and that would not be accepted in that area. I can only go by what I have been told since I am never going to get to 7th for some time frame.

 

[dancingalone]

Again I see your point and would agree if it was here in the states, but the op said he tested at the KKW and that would not be accepted in that area. I can only go by what I have been told since I am never going to get to 7th for some time frame.

I'm holding out for the next KKW integration program. Maybe I can get inducted in at my current karate rank then which is substantially higher than than the paltry ee-dan I earned in TKD back in the eighties.



JK.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

Did you read or hear the report of the Embassy communications released by the Wiki Leaks between the US and China? China states that it no longer considers the need of North Korea as a buffer zone and would welcome a reunification of the south and north to be a good future economic boon for China/

I wonder if that public communication release and our air craft carrier with nuclear weapons had something to do with the North not retaliating in response to the South's latest war games?
I also see a more hostile nature in the South related to calls for retaliation for the actions of the North compared to when I was there in 2008 and they cut the phone lines because they wanted the South to pay and install new communication equipment for them and I was shocked at how all the press and public comments were conciliatory sighting the need for open cooperation in the hopes of reuniting families?

I would really like to see a forum opened up on the North South relationship and what the hopes are for the future?

Yes I read that China said that they would accept a unified Korea under the leadership of Seoul, as that would expand trading with the Koreans as south Korea is a good trading partner & the north is a headache.
I can see them also saying US troops would have to withdraw eventually as well.

The current south Korean President Lee is center right & ran on a hard line policy towards the north. It is a very complex & potentially deadly situation with no easy answers. I say easier to campaign on then to actually govern over.

I wonder if the ITF-NK will be able to hold their 2011 world championships there, scheduled for September

 

[KarateMomUSA]

That said, I would think a demonstration of a historical chuan fa form from the kwan era would be a fine display at something as heady as a 7th dan promotional test. When a person attempts a masters or Ph.D. degree, they generally have to expand knowledge in their field through original research. I could see much of the same happening in martial arts by delving into other sources like chuan fa, etc.

Good point & I agree, but the PhD degree requires a doctoral dissertation that contributes new knowledge, so maybe that would translate to creating a new pattern, rather than simply doing a older one rarely performed today

 

[dancingalone]

Good point & I agree, but the PhD degree requires a doctoral dissertation that contributes new knowledge, so maybe that would translate to creating a new pattern, rather than simply doing a older one rarely performed today

Perhaps. Or an explanation of the lessons within the old set that fit into the framework of whatever the KKW is about technically today. As a 'traditionalist', I'd actually respect that type of research more than inventing yet another set of patterns.

This is going out on a tangent, but in general I don't think TKD groups need more forms. What they need is for their rank-and-file practitioners/teachers to know their forms better from a pedagogy perspective. Since the various hyung/poomsae/tul are related to older sets from karate and gong fu, I think it's actually a great idea to understand what the purpose of the similar movements are within karate or gong fu. Then what is done with the knowledge from there is up to the individual.

 

[bluewaveschool]

I'm holding out for the next KKW integration program. Maybe I can get inducted in at my current karate rank then which is substantially higher than than the paltry ee-dan I earned in TKD back in the eighties.



JK.

Once we get in, we'll use a skip dan and get even higher.

 

[dancingalone]

That's not too far off the mark. I have a friend in KKW TKD who said he should be able to get me a skip to 2nd dan right off the bat if I ever wanted to switch to taekwondo. Then regular promotions at the minimum time-in-between promotion periods.

 

[leadleg]

That's not too far off the mark. I have a friend in KKW TKD who said he should be able to get me a skip to 2nd dan right off the bat if I ever wanted to switch to taekwondo. Then regular promotions at the minimum time-in-between promotion periods.

You could do that and then the two of you could talk about integrity with all your new students.

 

[leadleg]

Again I see your point and would agree if it was here in the states, but the op said he tested at the KKW and that would not be accepted in that area. I can only go by what I have been told since I am never going to get to 7th for some time frame.

I think you should re-read the post from Puunui,it does not mention testing at KKW.The post answers a question about KKW schools not the KKW itself. The master he is speaking of has a school in Colorado.

 

[leadleg]

Perhaps. Or an explanation of the lessons within the old set that fit into the framework of whatever the KKW is about technically today. As a 'traditionalist', I'd actually respect that type of research more than inventing yet another set of patterns.

This is going out on a tangent, but in general I don't think TKD groups need more forms. What they need is for their rank-and-file practitioners/teachers to know their forms better from a pedagogy perspective. Since the various hyung/poomsae/tul are related to older sets from karate and gong fu, I think it's actually a great idea to understand what the purpose of the similar movements are within karate or gong fu. Then what is done with the knowledge from there is up to the individual.

Most of the taekwondoin I know do understand the purpose behind there movements. Actually some may even try to read more than there is. Unless you are speaking of children,who do forms from following along.Do you practice with many TKD groups?

 

[dancingalone]

You could do that and then the two of you could talk about integrity with all your new students.

Don't get your panties in a wad. Besides, apparently the rules allow for such, if put forth by someone at 4th dan or higher, do they not? If so, I do not know what your objection would be other than with your promotional guidelines itself.

 

[dancingalone]

Most of the taekwondoin I know do understand the purpose behind there movements. Actually some may even try to read more than there is. Unless you are speaking of children,who do forms from following along.Do you practice with many TKD groups?

They probably understand the base meaning of the movements according to current doctrine, whether that be KKW or whatever TKD group you prefer to reference. I doubt most understand the context of the movements from an inheritance perspective seen through the lens of parent arts like karate or gong fu. I'll use the analogy of a palimpsest, where an old manuscript has been scraped of the prior writing and then is reused. Occasionally, some of the old text is still legible, yet it's impossible to obtain all of the old message since it has been discarded, changed, or written over entirely. This is what I refer to with regard to patterns. The patterns practiced in TKD undeniably have the stamp of other arts all over them, yet the actual sequence of movements have been changed and reshuffled. Thus, it's unlikely that anyone would have the same perspective as a practitioner of the parent art without intentionally seeking it out to learn it.

And yep, I have been in the martial arts a long time. Spent 10 years doing nothing but traveling the world to study various systems thanks to a trust fund. I've spent 2 semesters with exposure to a KKW 9th dan and his senior students both at college as well as at his dojang where my prior experience in other styles was respected. I've seen many expressions of TKD. Don't take it personally if my perspective is different than yours.

 

[leadleg]

Don't get your panties in a wad. Besides, apparently the rules allow for such, if put forth by someone at 4th dan or higher, do they not? If so, I do not know what your objection would be other than with your promotional guidelines itself.

I am a gentleman,I do not wear panties,and the ones I do have I keep folded nicely on my dresser. Regardless of what some people suggest,no it is not ok for anyone no matter what rank to request advancement for anyone who does not fullfill the requirements. Does it happen? I suppose it does as it is only one's integrity or other moral values to keep such things in check.
Could it happen in any art,I think so.Why would anyone want a belt they know they do not deserve and why would a high dan want to cheapen their own line of students by handing out these belts to fakes? I don't know if you are trolling or you have a friend who is of low moral character,but I am not angry at all,just sad at the attempt you make here.

 

[leadleg]

They probably understand the base meaning of the movements according to current doctrine, whether that be KKW or whatever TKD group you prefer to reference. I doubt most understand the context of the movements from an inheritance perspective seen through the lens of parent arts like karate or gong fu. I'll use the analogy of a palimpsest, where an old manuscript has been scraped of the prior writing and then is reused. Occasionally, some of the old text is still legible, yet it's impossible to obtain all of the old message since it has been discarded, changed, or written over entirely. This is what I refer to with regard to patterns. The patterns practiced in TKD undeniably have the stamp of other arts all over them, yet the actual sequence of movements have been changed and reshuffled. Thus, it's unlikely that anyone would have the same perspective as a practitioner of the parent art without intentionally seeking it out to learn it.

And yep, I have been in the martial arts a long time. Spent 10 years doing nothing but traveling the world to study various systems thanks to a trust fund. I've spent 2 semesters with exposure to a KKW 9th dan and his senior students both at college as well as at his dojang where my prior experience in other styles was respected. I've seen many expressions of TKD. Don't take it personally if my perspective is different than yours.

I too have been around a long time, I have a lot more than a couple of semesters? doing TKD and other arts as well, at my age I do not worry so much about years of exposure as much as I do how much the person absorbed during those years. I have studied bunkai and unlike some I do noy see it as mysterious. I see from many of your post's lots of questions someone with expeirience should have answers to.
I am close to 60 and learned my first kicking from my father when he returned from the Korean war, I took some training in shotokan when I was a little older,and I was exposed to judo as a child also.I would hardly say that was MA experience and count my years from there. I also have taken seminars in many arts over the years but would not say I have eperience in those arts just because I took a seminar.
I realise we have different perspectives, and I certainly do noy take anything on any BBS personally. I would say that no matter what dojang you go to train at you will be respected for your prior experience, or lack of,Taekwondoin are like that.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Once we get in, we'll use a skip dan and get even higher.

I'm pretty sure that the KKW doesn't just issue skip-dans without some criterion. I've been practicing in some fashion long enough to warrant a higher grade than I currently am, but I have not been in my current grade long enough to warrant a two-dan skip.

Daniel