Kwans refused to be TKD

[puunui]

This can be somewhat problematic, as the Modern History contains some mistakes as you label them, as they do not go along with your perspective.

I mentioned one, about GM NAM Tae Hi's training. He's not in the 1946 promotion photos, so I seriously doubt that he was teaching anyone in 1947. This is confirmed by GM LEE Won Kuk. But the fact that the 1947 stuff is in the Modern History book goes to the point that even GM KANG Won Sik (or more likely GM LEE Kyong Myong, a former ITF member) can't escape from adding in General Choi, which leads to errors.

There are former ITF people out there who are still alive who can confirm what GM LEE Won Kuk said. GM KANG Suh Chong for example. Someone should go ask him about GM Nam and see what he says about it.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

I am sure that they did & I know GM Nam was interviewed for a book as well.

 

[puunui]

Here are some photos from the Chung Do Kwan in the 1940's. Can you please point out GM NAM Tae Hi in any of them?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JPoo7HDIu5E/SwXD-yLg02I/AAAAAAAAACE/h5xZxB3pz78/s1600/mr-lee+YMCA.jpg

http://www.tmafitness.com/Portals/0/LiveContent/447/Images/WonKukLee0005.jpg

http://www.hellers.ws/ma/images/mr-lee_700.jpg (1st promotion test, 1946)

For reference, GM Son is second from the right in the top row, GM Hyun is third from right top row, GM Uhm is third from left in top row, GM Kang is second from right in row second from top,

http://www.bwmac.com/Portals/0/EarlyChungDoKwan.jpg (2nd promotion test, 1946)

 

[puunui]

It would be nice if you could show one other person with any political clout who agrees with giving out KKW's wihtout testing's.

Here is the perspective of GM LEE Chong Woo:

"The president of a Kwan has the discretionary privilege to award a black belt certificate to someone considered to be a person of excellent character. For this reason, it is strange to dispute this, based on today's standards. People in general tend to think that the awarding of black belts should be according to athletic ability, but it is not exactly so., not does the black belt certificate parallel one's ability. After ten years of learning, many still have terrible skills."

 

[bluewaveschool]

Thanks for linking the pics

 

[bluewaveschool]

I mentioned one, about GM NAM Tae Hi's training. He's not in the 1946 promotion photos, so I seriously doubt that he was teaching anyone in 1947. This is confirmed by GM LEE Won Kuk. But the fact that the 1947 stuff is in the Modern History book goes to the point that even GM KANG Won Sik (or more likely GM LEE Kyong Myong, a former ITF member) can't escape from adding in General Choi, which leads to errors.

There are former ITF people out there who are still alive who can confirm what GM LEE Won Kuk said. GM KANG Suh Chong for example. Someone should go ask him about GM Nam and see what he says about it.

Would it be about the same response GM Son would give?

 

[puunui]

Would it be about the same response GM Son would give?

I don't know what GM Son would say. I don't think he's a let's walk down memory lane kind of guy.

 

[bluewaveschool]

It is quite fortunate that you have the opportunities you do to listen to these people, which you already know and acknowledge. Being not with any org, I don't exactly have a line to talk to those kinds of people. Plus, I don't know of any living in Kentucky, we aren't exactly a martial arts hub or anything.

 

[leadleg]

What in your opinion, is a "high dan"?


the ones you say do not know the requirements nor teach them

You might be right.

I do not want to be right


I suppose that is one way to do it, setting the terms, conditions and standards of your own rank promotion. I always felt that sort of thing was up to the person promoting you.

The KKW set the terms conditions and standards


Why what happens if we do that? Are you some how diminished if someone who you judge unworthy receives a promotion?

If people who do not know the requirements are promoted what are the KKW requirements and certification for


Maybe I did. I've done a lot of promotions over the years, and no doubt you would disapprove and judge harshly those who were promoted. Some of the practitioners I have recommended Kukkiwon promotions to include olympians, olympic medalists, world medalists, an olympic coach, IRs, national team members, national champions, JO champions, junior team members, junior medalists, poomsae national team members, and a whole bunch of participants at USTU and USAT national events over the years.


We are not talking about those that know the requirements we are talking about those who don't



Because then all those certificates would come to me and I wouldn't know who to give them to.

they can put their own address


It's right in the modern history book, if you don't like my perspective.

I read it I did not see where it said hand out KKW certificates to any one with $70


I think I am going to stop doing that. I think I will start treating historical information and perspectives like some people award promotions -- it should only be given out to those who are "worthy". I think I should just let inevitability take its course.

I do not decide who is worthy the KKW has set up requirements for that,I only uphold those requirements,I have never failed a BB who tested at my school,or while I sat on others testing boards.The requiremnets are not that hard if the student is serious at all



Not if rank is meaningless.

If rank is meaningless then why all this talk about juniors and their seniors?

 

[andyjeffries]

If rank is meaningless then why all this talk about juniors and their seniors?

Because higher rank doesn't necessarily make someone senior. Koreans judge by noonchi (expertise/presence) and oftentimes you may get a student who grades higher than their instructor, but will always consider the instructor their senior.

My grandmaster asked me a while back when was my Taekwondo birthday (the date I got my first dan) as he said that's the important date.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Here are some photos from the Chung Do Kwan in the 1940's. Can you please point out GM NAM Tae Hi in any of them?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JPoo7HDIu5E/SwXD-yLg02I/AAAAAAAAACE/h5xZxB3pz78/s1600/mr-lee+YMCA.jpg

http://www.tmafitness.com/Portals/0/LiveContent/447/Images/WonKukLee0005.jpg

http://www.hellers.ws/ma/images/mr-lee_700.jpg (1st promotion test, 1946)

For reference, GM Son is second from the right in the top row, GM Hyun is third from right top row, GM Uhm is third from left in top row, GM Kang is second from right in row second from top,

http://www.bwmac.com/Portals/0/EarlyChungDoKwan.jpg (2nd promotion test, 1946)

FWIW, in my article I recount GM Nam stating how he started training in 1946. Does not specify when in 1946.

Are the photos of Promotions only Dan promotions?

It also indicates it then took 2.5 years of training for him to reach first Dan. So this may not have been until 1949 or so if we split the time line and figure "In 1946" was around the half way point.

There is also a photo inthe article from a 1959 demo team listing Nam's training as 14 years. (Perhaps they rounded up.?) This woul still put his start in 1946 or so not making him appear in any BB Photos for a couple of years at least.

Are any of the photos from 1949 or later?

 

[miguksaram]

Well the Global GM's in Kyusho Jitsu would disagree saying there is no single only explanation of any movement but only multiple possibilities depending on what targets of opportunities present themselves.

Yes, and many of them believe they can knock you out without touching you too.

Frankly in Olympic Sparring now that the gloves are off if they would train their hands properly and knew the lung points and others they could punch right through that chest protector and do some real damage at least combined with feet we would see more knock outs.

It is a bit more complicated than knowing the lung spot and just hitting it. Certain times of the day certain meridians are more vulnerable if struck. Plus your opponent is moving making it difficult to strike the points directly. I have yet to see any of the Dillman people are any of the Kyoshu Kempo people successfully use their techniques on a resisting MOVING opponent. All their demos presented have been with willing test dummies standing in one position.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

Because higher rank doesn't necessarily make someone senior. Koreans judge by noonchi (expertise/presence) and oftentimes you may get a student who grades higher than their instructor, but will always consider the instructor their senior.
My grandmaster asked me a while back when was my Taekwondo birthday (the date I got my first dan) as he said that's the important date.

Yes for many, age, when they started training, education & station in life all play a part in seniority. In the early days or formative years, the 6 early kwans were all teaching some form of basic karate, with each kwan adding their own influences to that basic fact. So there was not much technical knowledge or nuisances, as that evolved later as their arts evolved & experience gained, when innovation took hold.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

Also GM Lee Won Kuk gave a 10th Dan to Nam Tae Hi, along with Kang Suh Chong & Uhm Won Gyu

 

[puunui]

It is quite fortunate that you have the opportunities you do to listen to these people, which you already know and acknowledge. Being not with any org, I don't exactly have a line to talk to those kinds of people. Plus, I don't know of any living in Kentucky, we aren't exactly a martial arts hub or anything.

I live in the most isolated place in the world. The closest land mass is a five hour plane flight away. You live within driving distance of many senior practitioners. We held JOs in Louisville one year because of the pitch that it was the most centralized city nearest the greatest number of americans, with highways forming a sort of hub. Chung Do Kwan GM LEE Kwan Sung lived in Kentucky.

 

[puunui]

In the early days or formative years, the 6 early kwans were all teaching some form of basic karate, with each kwan adding their own influences to that basic fact.

You can say either five or nine, not six. But if you wish to say six in the ITF version of history, then you can do that too. But doing this, you are blending again.

 

[puunui]

Also GM Lee Won Kuk gave a 10th Dan to Nam Tae Hi, along with Kang Suh Chong & Uhm Won Gyu

What year was GM Nam promoted to 10th Dan by GM Lee? GM Lee only talked about two 10th Dan, not three.

 

[puunui]

FWIW, in my article I recount GM Nam stating how he started training in 1946. Does not specify when in 1946. Are the photos of Promotions only Dan promotions? It also indicates it then took 2.5 years of training for him to reach first Dan. So this may not have been until 1949 or so if we split the time line and figure "In 1946" was around the half way point. There is also a photo inthe article from a 1959 demo team listing Nam's training as 14 years. (Perhaps they rounded up.?) This woul still put his start in 1946 or so not making him appear in any BB Photos for a couple of years at least. Are any of the photos from 1949 or later?

Maybe he did start in 1946, but stopped after a while. The Chung Do Kwan promotion photos are for all ranks. Everyone in the first photo is wearing a white belt. Do you see anyone that looks like GM Nam in that photo? If he took 2.5 years to get promoted to 1st Dan, that means he flunked one test. There are other photos from 1949, that large one with GM HWANG Kee sitting to the left of GM Lee and GM Ro on his right might be one of them. That photo shows Moo Duk Kwan people in there as well,I wrote a post about the dates of all the tests once.