Kung Fu Federation

[7starmantis]

I stumbled on this site, thought I would bring it here for some discussion. What do you guys think of it?

http://www.internationalkungfu.com/

7sm

 

[Dronak]

Well, I'm far from an expert here and maybe this is obvious glancing at the site, but it appears to me that they're stressing kung fu as a sport. That's not necessarily bad, but I do wonder if something will be lost in the attempt to standardize it for sport competitions.

 

[j_m]

Well, I'm far from an expert here and maybe this is obvious glancing at the site, but it appears to me that they're stressing kung fu as a sport. That's not necessarily bad, but I do wonder if something will be lost in the attempt to standardize it for sport competitions.

I agree for the most part. They even refer to kung fu specifically as a sport.

To me, they are trying to take kung fu in the wrong direction. But hey, you can get a black sash in 3 years!!



jm

 

[clfsean]

*cough* crap *cough*

:mp5:

 

[still learning]

Hello, It a start of something. Hope it goes well. ....Aloha

 

[Trainwreck]

I wouldn't call it a good start for people who want to practice kung-fu for the sake of self-defense, but it has potential.

 

[7starmantis]

Yeah, in my opinion its things like this that perpetuate misinformation and misunderstanding of real kung fu. With the amount of misconceptions out there, even among the "kung fu" practitioners, this is only going to serve to increase the confusion and stereotypes surrounding CMA. There is nothing sport about what I do and to set a box around it and makes rules for competition only ruins and weakens all the hard work put in. I just dont see anything positive coming from this except maybe more people hearing the words kung fu or wushu, but there are plenty of people who know those words and have no idea what they mean.

7sm

 

[j_m]

Have you ever seen good Tae Kwon Do? Now, have you ever seen "Olympic" Tae Kwon Do?? The are not the same thing. Now 95% of the worlds population thinks of the Olympic sport when they hear the term. Personally, I would not like to see the same thing happen to kung fu. Kung fu is not a sport, nor should it be treated like one. If they want to promote a sport they should not use the term "kung fu". (we all know kung fu doesn't really mean martial art anyway, right?) Look what's become of the real Chinese term for "martial art". Wu Shu, to most people, does not mean what it used to mean.



jm

 

[James Kovacich]

I stumbled on this site, thought I would bring it here for some discussion. What do you guys think of it?

http://www.internationalkungfu.com/

7sm

What do you think of the list of masters? Did it say that they were members or not?

 

[sifu Adams]

let me add a diferant twist to this. I don't know anything about IKF and I agree I don't wont anyone telling me that my art needs to change to fit a set of rules. However, I think everyone is off when it comes to the Oylmpics. The Oylmpics is something I feel could help Matial arts grow. We all know that tournament are diffent than a street/real fight. But is that what our 5-6-7 year olds and up are wonting it for? How many of your student quit your school to play football, basketball, baseball, soccer, or other sports? How many of you have a young student that you think would be a great martial artest? What keeps them in the martial arts. We are not living in the 1800 or 1900 any more. Maybe we need to think of the Oylmpics as a challange. In sted of 30 differnt styles of Martial arts trying to get into the Oylmpics we should join to gather and offer a mixed martial arts that combineds all the styles. Maybe the rules we set help us teach the world a correct way martial arts is to be done. We show them forms and katas, weapons and sparing the don't limmit you to playing a game of tag with you feet. the tournaments I have, are open to all styles, and when it comes to sparring we allow grabing, controled takedowns, and sweeping, and ground fighting. I here people all the time saying "TKD is no good", "80% fo fights go to the ground but 100% start standing up", "my style is better than that style", "that move wont work", but are they willing to prove it? I tell my students the if they let a TKD student kick them in the head they need to go back and learn think about what they forgot and improve it, not avod it.

My thoughs is we as martial artist in all styles need to get together and lay down the rule of the "sport" martial arts before we go any farther. If we did I think we would have more students taking class and working harder for a goal that they to could be in the oylpics some day, and we can do it without losing the roots of the martial arts.

 

[j_m]

let me add a diferant twist to this. I don't know anything about IKF and I agree I don't wont anyone telling me that my art needs to change to fit a set of rules. However, I think everyone is off when it comes to the Oylmpics. The Oylmpics is something I feel could help Matial arts grow. We all know that tournament are diffent than a street/real fight. But is that what our 5-6-7 year olds and up are wonting it for? How many of your student quit your school to play football, basketball, baseball, soccer, or other sports? How many of you have a young student that you think would be a great martial artest? What keeps them in the martial arts. We are not living in the 1800 or 1900 any more. Maybe we need to think of the Oylmpics as a challange. In sted of 30 differnt styles of Martial arts trying to get into the Oylmpics we should join to gather and offer a mixed martial arts that combineds all the styles. Maybe the rules we set help us teach the world a correct way martial arts is to be done. We show them forms and katas, weapons and sparing the don't limmit you to playing a game of tag with you feet. the tournaments I have, are open to all styles, and when it comes to sparring we allow grabing, controled takedowns, and sweeping, and ground fighting. I here people all the time saying "TKD is no good", "80% fo fights go to the ground but 100% start standing up", "my style is better than that style", "that move wont work", but are they willing to prove it? I tell my students the if they let a TKD student kick them in the head they need to go back and learn think about what they forgot and improve it, not avod it.

My thoughs is we as martial artist in all styles need to get together and lay down the rule of the "sport" martial arts before we go any farther. If we did I think we would have more students taking class and working harder for a goal that they to could be in the oylpics some day, and we can do it without losing the roots of the martial arts.

I, for one, do not feel like the Olympics have anything "good" to offer martial arts. But, this is not what the topic was about. The topic was about a so-called federation trying to unify kung fu by trying to get it into the Olympics and also by several other means.

If you, or anyone, wants to take martial arts to the Olympics... that's fine. But you have to understand that once you begin definig set rules and watering things down it no longer is a martial art. It's just a martial sport. If that's what you do in your martial arts, then fine. What most of us are saying is that is NOT the root of our martial arts... which, in this particular case, is kung fu. Kung fu is not a sport and I think promoting it as one is a very bad idea. I'm not into sports... I'm into kung fu. They are two seperate things I believe they should remain that way.

I admire your enthusiasm to spread and promote martial arts. But that's not how I want to spread or promote mine. Don't get me wrong. I really like to interact with other martial artist of all kinds (physically as well as intilectually). But I still think turning any of it into some sort of "organized sport" will make it eventually lose it's roots.

FWIW,



jm

 

[rox]

I don't see a problem with competition if you are allowed NOT to do it.

 

[InvisibleFist]

I think its great! Its clear that what they are trying to do is set an international standard for kung fu competition AS DISTINCT from wushu. (note that wushu forms are specifically excluded from the taolu rules.)

I think competetion is good for the martial arts. I'm suspicious of schools that won't compete because their art is "too deadly". I agree that competetion is NOT fighting, hell everybody knows that. But it gives us a chance to gather and test our skills in a spirit of fellowship.

If its not a sport then what the hell is it?

 

[7starmantis]

If its not a sport then what the hell is it?

Kung Fu

 

[47MartialMan]

Why not....everything has has become a sport with rules.

 

[7starmantis]

Competition and "Competitions" are different things. Competition is a good thing, but this is done within the school, in a real scenario, not at a "competition" (tournement) with rules which only further bad habits. The very nature of kung fu makes it impossible to judge like that in an olympic setting. Whats the point? You think to spread kung fu is to put it in the olympics where it will be misunderstood, misrepresented, and misconstrued?

I think its the worst thing that could happen, but thats my own opinion.

7sm

 

[InvisibleFist]

Why do you feel that the very nature of kung fu makes it impossible to judge in an olympic setting?

What competition within the school are you talking about?

Again I repeat, the purpose of tournaments is to get together, see what other martial artists do and strut our stuff a little. How does that promote bad habits?

I think bad habits are more likely to arise from schools that refuse to participate, and degrade into mutual admiration societies.

 

[7starmantis]

Why do you feel that the very nature of kung fu makes it impossible to judge in an olympic setting?

You judge an athlete at a tournement or the olympics by sight. Most of the power generation and even attacks of kung fu are hard to see. What about absorbing a hit and yielding to it? Contact is made, do you give the point to the attacker? Even if the one being "hit" absorbs it and returns the strike and does damage? Are you going to break them up after certain points or hits? Kung Fu is continuous working off the energy and movements of the opponent. Using it for such an event would encourage training for specific events and rules such to get the point, not practice true kung fu.

What competition within the school are you talking about?

Fighting. No rules, no judges, no set boundries, just pure fighting. We fight ALOT in my school and even have others join us. Just this past week we had a guy from a local Karate club and a guy from a local Judo club come and fight with us, full contact. While there are still a few rules with that (which still in my opinion is not true kung fu) we weren't trying to get a point, or impress a judge, just use what we train. Its focus was pure application and education. We could stop and dicuss something if we needed to as well. The focus wasn't winning, getting points, or impressing judges, which usually tends to make people train for that. Why train for something that wont impress the olympic judges?

Again I repeat, the purpose of tournaments is to get together, see what other martial artists do and strut our stuff a little. How does that promote bad habits?

I think bad habits are more likely to arise from schools that refuse to participate, and degrade into mutual admiration societies.

I'll respond to these later when I get time, gotta run.

7sm

 

[clfsean]

Why do you feel that the very nature of kung fu makes it impossible to judge in an olympic setting?

Examples...

Tang Fung Hung Ga
Wong Fei Hung Hung Ga
Taiwanese Hung Ga

Chan CLF
Hung Sing CLF
Buk Sing CLF

Jook Lum SPM
Chow Ga SPM
Iron Ox SPM

Songshan Shaolin
Bak Siu Lum

etc....

How can somebody judge different variations of a CMA when there is no single style CMA? In Olympic sports, the competition routines are standardized & categorized. You can't do that with TCMA.

HOWEVER... you can do it if you strip everything that makes a CMA specific to itself, set standard techniques across the board & say this is it... oh, wait.... the PRC already did that. It's referred to as Modern Wushu...

Again I repeat, the purpose of tournaments is to get together, see what other martial artists do and strut our stuff a little. How does that promote bad habits?

If you look at the majority of tournies today, all you get are... (paraphrasing one of your statments)...

mutual admiration societies

Look at who comes & goes, who wins & who doesn't.

I think bad habits are more likely to arise from schools that refuse to participate, and degrade into mutual admiration societies.

Nah... bad habits arise when Student "A" from school "1" sees Student "B" from school "2" doing something that makes Student "B" win, but has no martial value or use,but looks really damn good. Student "A" then takes Student "B" 's bad technique to practice & continues down the road from there changing things to make them "tournie winners" as opposed to techniquese proper to that style.

 

[Darksoul]

-I have to agree with the dissenters on turning kung-fu into a sport. Maybe they could have a simple fighting category, regardless of style, and see who wins, though how you would judge that is a debate in itself. The point of kung-fu, when you're actually using it, is to defeat the opponent, avoid or diminish any damage to yourself, and walk away alive. People have many reasons to train, but ultimately, when it comes down to using kung-fu, its about survival. In training, sure you can have competitions within schools, between students. And cross training with students from other schools to practice what you know is a really good idea.


A---)

p.s. maybe we should start a new thread on how to better promote the ma's