kiddy/fatty blackbelts (RANT)

[The MMA kid!]

there are many schools out there that seem to promote children at a very fast rate. there are some schools that I have seen that children as young as 8 years old have attained a black belt!! this bothers me very, very much.
there is a kid who rents mat time at dojang/jo (15, maybe 16 years old) who teaches a karate class. he is a 3rd dan blackbelt!!! this would be a little easier for me to deal with if the guy had good fighting ability, but he doesn't. it all just seems so horrible to me. I just sit there and look at his flyer and ask myself, "why?"
when i was 12, i was testing for my 2nd promotion and had to spar a kiddy blackbelt, he was about 10( not promoted at bb in our school). I put all of my skills into that match, and i really creamed the kid.

why anyone want to even accept the rank of blackbelt if they know in their heart that they lack the skills?

another thing i see now, OUT OF SHAPE INSTRUCTORS. now i understand if a person has past his/her prime and is now having to work a little harder to stay in shape and/or has medical problems, etc. but I am seeing a vast majority of instructors who just let themselves go! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT MARTIAL ARTS. even if the instructor truly has mastered his/her art, they should still frequently practice it. I had one fellow instructor who opted not to take the adult class after teaching the kids classes, and for no good apparent reason, he rarely practiced.

another thing, I have lately been seeing this fad of the old, tattered-looking vintage blackbelt (the actual belt) on teenaged blackbelts. Im guessing this is supposed to give off the illusion that they have been a black belt for a long time. I have seen these on sale on different martial arts web-stores.
and people wonder why so many Americanized martial arts are so watered down!!
please, we need to stop celebrating mediocrity and take pride in our arts!

*sighs* thanks, I really needed to get that out

 

[CuongNhuka]

I know of an Aikido Sensei who is very out of shape. But there is no way I could take him on. Size and shape doesn't quite matter. But remember, don't drop to there level. Read the thing about honor in the martial arts on the same forum. It has a simliar theme.

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John

 

[SAVAGE]

there are many schools out there that seem to promote children at a very fast rate. there are some schools that I have seen that children as young as 8 years old have attained a black belt!! this bothers me very, very much.
there is a kid who rents mat time at dojang/jo (15, maybe 16 years old) who teaches a karate class. he is a 3rd dan blackbelt!!! this would be a little easier for me to deal with if the guy had good fighting ability, but he doesn't. it all just seems so horrible to me. I just sit there and look at his flyer and ask myself, "why?"
when i was 12, i was testing for my 2nd promotion and had to spar a kiddy blackbelt, he was about 10( not promoted at bb in our school). I put all of my skills into that match, and i really creamed the kid.

why anyone want to even accept the rank of blackbelt if they know in their heart that they lack the skills?

another thing i see now, OUT OF SHAPE INSTRUCTORS. now i understand if a person has past his/her prime and is now having to work a little harder to stay in shape and/or has medical problems, etc. but I am seeing a vast majority of instructors who just let themselves go! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT MARTIAL ARTS. even if the instructor truly has mastered his/her art, they should still frequently practice it. I had one fellow instructor who opted not to take the adult class after teaching the kids classes, and for no good apparent reason, he rarely practiced.

another thing, I have lately been seeing this fad of the old, tattered-looking vintage blackbelt (the actual belt) on teenaged blackbelts. Im guessing this is supposed to give off the illusion that they have been a black belt for a long time. I have seen these on sale on different martial arts web-stores.
and people wonder why so many Americanized martial arts are so watered down!!
please, we need to stop celebrating mediocrity and take pride in our arts!

*sighs* thanks, I really needed to get that out

I mean this in the most respectful way....but you must be the worlds best martial artist and fighter...because it is so obvious that you have no faults..and you can cream a 10 year old black belt...WOW!

I am a overweight martial artist 130kg of bulk...I have trained for 18 years in four different arts (I am not bragging just saying)...I dont have a black belt...I dont want it...I never bothered to grade for it...but I can hold my own believe me...I am only 27..no medical history..so according to you I am a useless martial artist.

Do you have a black belt?...does that mean you should be a martial arts guru...a belt is only there to hold your gi together...any renshi...or soke...or grandmaster will tell you they are still students...what great power do you have to judge...from what I understand childrens black belts are not the same as adult black belts....and to gate a third dan means that he would havwe had to spend at least seven years doing karate...have you been around MA for that long? however people choose to train in MA is there business not yours...just keep doing what you do and let people do what they do!

*sigh* thank you for letting me get that out!

 

[The MMA kid!]

I mean this in the most respectful way....but you must be the worlds best martial artist and fighter...because it is so obvious that you have no faults..and you can cream a 10 year old black belt...WOW!

I am a overweight martial artist 130kg of bulk...I have trained for 18 years in four different arts (I am not bragging just saying)...I dont have a black belt...I dont want it...I never bothered to grade for it...but I can hold my own believe me...I am only 27..no medical history..so according to you I am a useless martial artist.

Do you have a black belt?...does that mean you should be a martial arts guru...a belt is only there to hold your gi together...any renshi...or soke...or grandmaster will tell you they are still students...what great power do you have to judge...from what I understand childrens black belts are not the same as adult black belts....and to gate a third dan means that he would have had to spend at least seven years doing karate...have you been around MA for that long? however people choose to train in MA is there business not yours...just keep doing what you do and let people do what they do!

*sigh* thank you for letting me get that out!

hey savage, sorry if i offended you, but you dont fall into ANY of the categories i listed. I have been doing martial arts for 8 years. 1st dan blackbelt. you said you dont have a blackbelt correct? this is why you do not fall into the rant.
my main target was kiddy blackbelts, and out of shape instructors. are you either? my rant was not with you. I have no problem with out of shape instructors either as a matter of fact, just out of shape instructors who dont practice anymore. you say you do martial arts, and are still doing it if i read correctly, another reason why this post shouldn't have offended you. heck, i have a big instructor, but he works his butt off in the dojo, sparring, grappling, and running just like the rest of us. its a little harder to set a tone in writing.
and no, I am not the best martial artist ever, i never really mentioned myself in my rant. EDIT* except my experience at 12 years old. again, sorry to offend, but i fail to see what offended you.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

The most important thing in your life is what you do - not what others do.

 

[karatekid1975]

SAVAGE, I can agree with you to a point, but relax a bit. I'm not downing either one of you, but I can agree to a point with both of you.

I don't agree with the 9 year old BB's either, but I do see that a "kiddie" (or jr) BB is not the same as an adults. I don't know about "fatty" BB's. I never trained with one (instructors anyways).

For me, I'm almost 31, and I am picky about when I test. Yes, I have that choice. I have seen horrible BB's, and I don't wanna be one of them. I am now a first gup. I "should" be testing in April for BB. But If I don't feel I'm ready, I simply won't. I do trust my instructor's choice of letting me test, but I want to feel right about it too. I want to know I can do what he asks, instead of "winging it." But then again, I won't wait 10 years to do so (has happened in my school LOL. A dude is a 1st gup and he has been training 10 years in my dojang).

So it's a matter of opinion, or situation (or a case of McDojang or whatever).

 

[karatekid1975]

Jonathan Randall, Amen

 

[terryl965]

MMA kid since you know me and I do fit into your catagory, the one with being overwieght, but in shape. I know my skills our equal t many MA"ERS out there and I'm myself not happy about the weight, working n losing it but since the heart attack it as been a stugle for me, diet exorcise and waiting to make sure I do not over do it this time around.

Your statement should be a little more gentle in wording not to offend anybody.

As far a BB goes you are Kukkiwon certified correct and then you know the juniors in are Art or sport is consider a poom whch is a Jr. BB. You have been training for eight yearcrrect and you are a 1st dan, my odest has been raining for eight years and is pom kukkiwon certified, been doing National and Internaional events for 5 years, I know you respect me as I you, since we are in the same neck of the woods

I hope you can see where some of or statements should have ben defind a little tonight.
Thanks
Terry Lee Stoker

 

[Jonathan Randall]

MMA kid since you know me and I do fit into your catagory, the one with being overwieght, but in shape. I know my skills our equal t many MA"ERS out there and I'm myself not happy about the weight, working n losing it but since the heart attack it as been a stugle for me, diet exorcise and waiting to make sure I do not over do it this time around.
Terry Lee Stoker

I'm very sorry to hear that you had a heart attack, sir. BTW, were you in my neck of the woods, I wouldn't hesitate to study under you as our views on TKD and MA are nearly identical. If you have a few extra pounds, well so do I. However, looks are deceptive as I and I'm sure you as well, have far greater abilities than we had when we were 19 and family and job considerations didn't have us eating on the fly and struggling to find extra gym time. You are very correct, MMA Kid should have put more consideration into his post. He's still very young, though, and probably didn't intend offense.

 

[The MMA kid!]

MMA kid since you know me and I do fit into your catagory, the one with being overwieght, but in shape. I know my skills our equal t many MA"ERS out there and I'm myself not happy about the weight, working n losing it but since the heart attack it as been a stugle for me, diet exorcise and waiting to make sure I do not over do it this time around.

Your statement should be a little more gentle in wording not to offend anybody.

As far a BB goes you are Kukkiwon certified correct and then you know the juniors in are Art or sport is consider a poom whch is a Jr. BB. You have been training for eight yearcrrect and you are a 1st dan, my odest has been raining for eight years and is pom kukkiwon certified, been doing National and Internaional events for 5 years, I know you respect me as I you, since we are in the same neck of the woods

I hope you can see where some of or statements should have ben defind a little tonight.
Thanks
Terry Lee Stoker

i have read in other threads about your son, and i respect that. him memorizing all of those forms is very impressive! up to 4 hours a day you say? that is quite impressive as it is rather difficult for me to train more than 2 1/2 hours a night (after teaching) Im sorry to hear about your heart attack, you are my senior and a "ma#ter" for that you will always have my respect. after reading over my post i do realize where i could have been easier with my words.

 

[The MMA kid!]

I'm very sorry to hear that you had a heart attack, sir. BTW, were you in my neck of the woods, I wouldn't hesitate to study under you as our views on TKD and MA are nearly identical. If you have a few extra pounds, well so do I. However, looks are deceptive as I and I'm sure you as well, have far greater abilities than we had when we were 19 and family and job considerations didn't have us eating on the fly and struggling to find extra gym time. You are very correct, MMA Kid should have put more consideration into his post. He's still very young, though, and probably didn't intend offense.

yea, hence the "kid" in my name. I do apologize for my wording.
moving along, has anyone else seen these "vintage" black belts going around?

 

[Jonathan Randall]

i have read in other threads about your son, and i respect that. him memorizing all of those forms is very impressive! up to 4 hours a day you say? that is quite impressive as it is rather difficult for me to train more than 2 1/2 hours a night (after teaching) Im sorry to hear about your heart attack, you are my senior and a "ma#ter" for that you will always have my respect. after reading over my post i do realize where i could have been easier with my words.

Very good post!

It demonstrates maturity on your part to be able to backtrack and correct yourself the moment your realize, or have it pointed out to you, that you erred a bit.

 

[terryl965]

i have read in other threads about your son, and i respect that. him memorizing all of those forms is very impressive! up to 4 hours a day you say? that is quite impressive as it is rather difficult for me to train more than 2 1/2 hours a night (after teaching) Im sorry to hear about your heart attack, you are my senior and a "ma#ter" for that you will always have my respect. after reading over my post i do realize where i could have been easier with my words.

MMA kid you are a valuble asset to the Art of TKD and to Mt as well we all from time to time need to vent and that is Ok, just remember like I have to do is watch my own P's and Q's for the passion we have is like a flow of water it can never be stopped and will always be there to quence our thirst for knowledge.
Terry

 

[MJS]

Mod Note

Thread moved to horror stories

MJS
MT Mod

 

[SAVAGE]

The most important thing in your life is what you do - not what others do.Today 11:30 PM
This is exactly it!

listen kid....you want me to disect your post..I am not offended..you cannot offend me but your portrayl of something that has been my life is offensive!

there are many schools out there that seem to promote children at a very fast rate. there are some schools that I have seen that children as young as 8 years old have attained a black belt!! this bothers me very, very much.

If a child put in the time why should he not be awarded the black belt...like I said a childs blackbelt is not the same as a adults black belt in any org I heard of!

there is a kid who rents mat time at dojang/jo (15, maybe 16 years old) who teaches a karate class. he is a 3rd dan blackbelt!!!

A little jealous perhaps...he is a qualified third dan why do you think he shouldnt teach?

this would be a little easier for me to deal with if the guy had good fighting ability, but he doesn't. it all just seems so horrible to me. I just sit there and look at his flyer and ask myself, "why?"

Here is a staement...you are not a memeber of his class I gather so why should it bother you...from this you are saying that because he cant fight that he knows nothing and cannot teach technique...that is BS man..so unless your master is a world class fighter he is useless..my art hapkido has no competition...so my master is not a fighter..I better stop now and give up I just wasted ten years damn...my master for Judo...was not a world champion, he was not even a very good fighter..but we have a Commonwealth Games Gold Medalist..Nacanieli Takayawa in our dojo...someone better tell him that he has learnt crap and he better give his medals back! I also ask myself why? Why are you so critical of this guy....why are you reading his flyers...go and train!

when i was 12, i was testing for my 2nd promotion and had to spar a kiddy blackbelt, he was about 10( not promoted at bb in our school). I put all of my skills into that match, and i really creamed the kid.

The difference between a 12 year old and a 10 year old...is size strength and weight..Mike Tyson vs De la Hoya.......you catch my drift..a blackbelt is not all about whos *** you can kick!

why anyone want to even accept the rank of blackbelt if they know in their heart that they lack the skills?

Why do you say in there hearts...do you know what is in there hearts? are you a clairvoyant...what number am I thinking of? And a qualified instructor has deemed these people worty but no you say...well we better all listen then huh!

another thing i see now, OUT OF SHAPE INSTRUCTORS. now i understand if a person has past his/her prime and is now having to work a little harder to stay in shape and/or has medical problems, etc. but I am seeing a vast majority of instructors who just let themselves go! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT MARTIAL ARTS. even if the instructor truly has mastered his/her art, they should still frequently practice it. I had one fellow instructor who opted not to take the adult class after teaching the kids classes, and for no good apparent reason, he rarely practiced.

Once again these are men and women much more qualified than you..strength is not the be all end all..technique is more important...that is why they are called masters..because they have mastered there arts..and if they dont practice why dont you challange them to a fight and see if they still HAVE WHAT IT TAKES!

hey savage, sorry if i offended you, but you dont fall into ANY of the categories i listed. I have been doing martial arts for 8 years. 1st dan blackbelt. you said you dont have a blackbelt correct? this is why you do not fall into the rant.

My rank is of no import as to why I was annoyed....you have a first dan black belt...big deal! It doent make you better than the overweight instructors!

my main target was kiddy blackbelts, and out of shape instructors. are you either?

People you are obviously superior to right? I mean yiour a first dan dlack belt ohhhhhhh...and the fat fifth dans should just pack up and go home.....I do instruct! I created my own style..well in the midst of creating!

I have no problem with out of shape instructors either as a matter of fact, just out of shape instructors who dont practice anymore.

So if they are teaching...they are not practicing....explain that..the best way to learn is to teach!

but i fail to see what offended you.

You are arrogant...you have no respect for people who wear the black belts..and instructors of a higher rank...you sound like only fighters should wear a black belt...for a first dan you know very little about the core of MA..this may not be the case but it is what I gather from your posts...you have a little stripe on the tip of your belt you are not yet a master...so how can you judge them..i agree that children do not need to wear same level black belts as adults..but yopu go about it as if it is your problem..which it is not! Unless you are perfect do not judge others!

 

[The MMA kid!]

The most important thing in your life is what you do - not what others do.Today 11:30 PM
This is exactly it!

listen kid....you want me to disect your post..I am not offended..you cannot offend me but your portrayl of something that has been my life is offensive!

there are many schools out there that seem to promote children at a very fast rate. there are some schools that I have seen that children as young as 8 years old have attained a black belt!! this bothers me very, very much.

If a child put in the time why should he not be awarded the black belt...like I said a childs blackbelt is not the same as a adults black belt in any org I heard of!

there is a kid who rents mat time at dojang/jo (15, maybe 16 years old) who teaches a karate class. he is a 3rd dan blackbelt!!!

A little jealous perhaps...he is a qualified third dan why do you think he shouldnt teach?

this would be a little easier for me to deal with if the guy had good fighting ability, but he doesn't. it all just seems so horrible to me. I just sit there and look at his flyer and ask myself, "why?"

Here is a staement...you are not a memeber of his class I gather so why should it bother you...from this you are saying that because he cant fight that he knows nothing and cannot teach technique...that is BS man..so unless your master is a world class fighter he is useless..my art hapkido has no competition...so my master is not a fighter..I better stop now and give up I just wasted ten years damn...my master for Judo...was not a world champion, he was not even a very good fighter..but we have a Commonwealth Games Gold Medalist..Nacanieli Takayawa in our dojo...someone better tell him that he has learnt crap and he better give his medals back! I also ask myself why? Why are you so critical of this guy....why are you reading his flyers...go and train!

when i was 12, i was testing for my 2nd promotion and had to spar a kiddy blackbelt, he was about 10( not promoted at bb in our school). I put all of my skills into that match, and i really creamed the kid.

The difference between a 12 year old and a 10 year old...is size strength and weight..Mike Tyson vs De la Hoya.......you catch my drift..a blackbelt is not all about whos *** you can kick!

why anyone want to even accept the rank of blackbelt if they know in their heart that they lack the skills?

Why do you say in there hearts...do you know what is in there hearts? are you a clairvoyant...what number am I thinking of? And a qualified instructor has deemed these people worty but no you say...well we better all listen then huh!

another thing i see now, OUT OF SHAPE INSTRUCTORS. now i understand if a person has past his/her prime and is now having to work a little harder to stay in shape and/or has medical problems, etc. but I am seeing a vast majority of instructors who just let themselves go! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT MARTIAL ARTS. even if the instructor truly has mastered his/her art, they should still frequently practice it. I had one fellow instructor who opted not to take the adult class after teaching the kids classes, and for no good apparent reason, he rarely practiced.

Once again these are men and women much more qualified than you..strength is not the be all end all..technique is more important...that is why they are called masters..because they have mastered there arts..and if they dont practice why dont you challange them to a fight and see if they still HAVE WHAT IT TAKES!

hey savage, sorry if i offended you, but you dont fall into ANY of the categories i listed. I have been doing martial arts for 8 years. 1st dan blackbelt. you said you dont have a blackbelt correct? this is why you do not fall into the rant.

My rank is of no import as to why I was annoyed....you have a first dan black belt...big deal! It doent make you better than the overweight instructors!

my main target was kiddy blackbelts, and out of shape instructors. are you either?

People you are obviously superior to right? I mean yiour a first dan dlack belt ohhhhhhh...and the fat fifth dans should just pack up and go home.....I do instruct! I created my own style..well in the midst of creating!

I have no problem with out of shape instructors either as a matter of fact, just out of shape instructors who dont practice anymore.

So if they are teaching...they are not practicing....explain that..the best way to learn is to teach!

but i fail to see what offended you.

You are arrogant...you have no respect for people who wear the black belts..and instructors of a higher rank...you sound like only fighters should wear a black belt...for a first dan you know very little about the core of MA..this may not be the case but it is what I gather from your posts...you have a little stripe on the tip of your belt you are not yet a master...so how can you judge them..i agree that children do not need to wear same level black belts as adults..but yopu go about it as if it is your problem..which it is not! Unless you are perfect do not judge others!

Savage, I apologize for offending you. had i known that my thread would spark such a flame I would not have posted it. I am not arrogant, your right, maybe i shoudnt judge others, but i was explaining my opinion. and you are right, because of how belts are now distributed, i DONT respect the black belt. I no longer respect any belt. I respect experience, and knowledge of the art.
as far as the "how is teaching not practicing"... teaching is a form of practicing, but you and i both know that it is not the same.

 

[MJS]

Gentlemen,

The discussions usually go better if we refrain from taking personal shots at one another. I know that emotions can run high at times, but lets try to keep the discussion on a more friendly level.

Mike

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Gentlemen,

The discussions usually go better if we refrain from taking personal shots at one another. I know that emotions can run high at times, but lets try to keep the discussion on a more friendly level.

Mike

Yes, and MMA Kid has apologized multiple times for giving offense, so I consider the case closed.

 

[SAVAGE]

Like i said he may be a good kid...but it is an arrogant post......people were posting while I was still wording mine....I apologise for offending anyone...i disagree whole heartedly with MMA kid, especially that teaching is not learning...it is revision of what they know...these people became masters for a reason and most of them forget more MA than we could hope to learn...I learnt TKD, repect to seniors is a tenent..,.and one that applies to all MA...people seem to forget that!

 

[green meanie]

Here's my two cents. Hope I don't offend anybody.

It's apparent to me that MMA kid is troubled by 1) children in black belts and 2) instructors who appear to have no fighting ability. The reality is you're in an art that, from your perspective, advocates both of these situations. Many arts award black belts to children. Many arts have nothing to do with fighting. That seems to be the place you're in right now and no amount of ranting is going to change that. But there are also many arts who do not award black belts to children under the age of 14 or 16. There are many arts that feel that the ability to fight in 'live' situations is of the utmost importance. Perhaps its just time for you consider taking your training in another direction.