Keysi Fighting Method/Defence Lab

Discussion in 'Western Martial Arts - General' started by Serpent Raptor, Jul 3, 2016.

  1. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    553
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    PuncheS that travel a long way are general more powerful than those that go a shorter distance, so why not just throw haymakers, lots of people do,

    Well for one the longer distance takes longer to set up and longer to travel, so your trading power for efficiency, or a softer blow that is more likely to land as they have less time to move Or to counter punch
     
  2. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    553
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    I missed and hit his nose
     
  3. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    553
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    No one's claimed it better than MT,nothing is better than MT in my opinion, but that's not out discussion, which is the relative merits of bjj, and dl
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  4. veritasAequitas

    veritasAequitas Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 28, 2018
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Oregon
    No it isn't the point is don't you see how this is a stupid system that uses long format drills that have so many point's of failure there's no way you can do it realistically.
     
  5. veritasAequitas

    veritasAequitas Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 28, 2018
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Oregon
    Seeing as defense lab is based on inosanto jkd/Kali as well as bjj why are we not comparing that?
     
  6. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    553
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    If you hit someone with aBarragee of elbows followed by a hammer fist, they will be in pretty bad shape, so that's a realistic technique for self defence, you picked thatVid as an example and that example shows a practical and effective technique, even if the hammer fist at the end isn't optimal and from where your arms are after the elbows, there's a limit to what you can do very quickly, in the same place I would have head butTed him to be honest, but that's just my preference, But if I catch them with a good elbow, I rather expect them to fall ovet, so the point is open
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  7. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    553
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    Mostly coz you claimed bjj, was better, and that what we are discusing, are you also claiming bjj, is better than jkd,
     
  8. veritasAequitas

    veritasAequitas Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 28, 2018
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Oregon
    Because it is, the ground game of defence lab is bjj with skin tears and forced usage of framing
     
  9. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    553
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    Well clearly the ground game is NOT bjj, or it would include that mount escape you keep going on about,
     
  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    16,454
    Likes Received:
    4,685
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Not sure what any of that has to do with my statement.
     
  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    16,454
    Likes Received:
    4,685
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    That's not how it works, either. Phrases, when used as accepted terms, have whatever definition they are accepted to have. That definition may or may not be tied to the actual definitions of the words making up that phrase. Words aren't numbers - you don't simply add them together to get a new meaning.
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    16,454
    Likes Received:
    4,685
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I know the point you're trying to make, and I think it's a good one. But frankly in the chaos of a fight, things like this can be useful. Sometimes it's helpful to force a student into a position where you take away their "best" options to help build other options. Of course, if the overall approach (as you are implying) does this too much, then there's not enough training of the "best" options.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. veritasAequitas

    veritasAequitas Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 28, 2018
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Oregon
    Except it is, its a mount escape with skin tears.

    Except you dont trap the arm or leg you use pain and force to drag the person of.

    If the person has base it posture it won't work, they will clear your arms and hit you.
     
  14. veritasAequitas

    veritasAequitas Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 28, 2018
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Oregon
    The issue is that its always from a viewpoint of the frames. It limits your choices of strikes dependent on which if the 4 shapes you happen to use dependant on your hand position.

    This compounds itself when the system requires you to be in the frames all the time, so it makes you vulnerable to being leg kicked.

    The long form drills also don't really prepare you to apply the combinations you learn on a none arm hanging opponent.

    Its supposed to be a simple system that anyone can learn and easily use, but it becomes so convoluted in its concepts.

    It prides itself on being non conformist and adds strange techniques that I have never seen in other systems and probably for good reason, like punching with the knuckle of the thumb
     
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    16,454
    Likes Received:
    4,685
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I wonder if the larger issue is that DL methodology might be best suited for short-term training. Beyond that, with a bit more experience, you'd want to get out of the framing box and open up your options more. Take something well-suited for short-term gains and try to lengthen it without really altering it, and you start holding folks too close to the limited (and limiting) choices of a beginner.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    553
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    It has to do with your statement, that punching isn't pain compliance, when punching is most definitely use by the British boBby as a pain compliance technique
     
  17. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    4,447
    Likes Received:
    553
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    Well it's not by definition an accepted term as I Diagree, And seemingly so do most dictionaries, ,

    In your new an unofficial defintion, what aspect of pain or compliance have changed from the dictionary drfintion and what is the new meaning of the combined phrase, that doesn't include compliance through pain
     
  18. veritasAequitas

    veritasAequitas Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 28, 2018
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Oregon
    You're pretty much told to always over the head and never ever open up.
     
  19. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    15,712
    Likes Received:
    3,541
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Wiki's definition.
    Pain compliance - Wikipedia
     
  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    16,454
    Likes Received:
    4,685
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Go back and re-read my comment. You've left out a word that makes a difference. Many words do.

    Most techniques have the potential to be used for pain compliance, even if they are not inherently pain compliance techniques.
     

Share This Page

Search tags for this page
defence lab melbourne
,

defence lab review

,
defence lab reviews
,
defence lab vs keysi
,
defense lab
,
defense lab review
,
is defence lab any good
,
is keysi fighting method effective
,
ist defence lab keysi
,
keysi defence lab forum
,
keysi fighting opinions
,
keysi figthing method belt rank
,
level of ranking in defence lab
,
self defense lab keysi