Keysi Fighting Method/Defence Lab

[jobo]

Yeah, that's why I included the caveat that it must be technically effective. Pain compliance isn't all that useful. Most pain-only techniques I can resist pretty nicely, and I'm no tough guy. I've had partners who - even in casual training - simply didn't respond to the level of pain deliverable with most pain compliance. They'd tap out to avoid injury (though I've seen more than one neglect to do so, and receive the actual injury), but not because of any pain level.

We haven't established it's not effective, just bjj, ers think they should do something else

 

[veritasAequitas]

I thought he was cutting them up bad with his ninja ring ? , is mayor lacerations to the leCk not a reasonably lasting injury,

How many actual ligaments have you ripped in bJj, ?

They aren't actually sharp you can gouge and tear with them.

But why? When I can use a technique that doesn't require a ring.

 

[veritasAequitas]

But the cutting up ring,( are you actually follow the debate) causes both damage and pain, it's a pain compliance technique, as are arm bars, you can say arM e bars are more effective, but you can Deny that the other is a both painful and damaging

It can't cause any damage that would stop anyone.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

So they tap as Pain compliance, yet strangely it's not a pain compliance technique!

Nope. They tap to prevent injury. If the technique only causes pain and does not have the potential to cause real damage, then they will typically not tap.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

(Replied to the same post twice.)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

We haven't established it's not effective, just bjj, ers think they should do something else

I can establish pretty quickly that it's not effective without a compliant partner. I'm not a BJJ'er, and I think they should do something else.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But the cutting up ring,( are you actually follow the debate) causes both damage and pain, it's a pain compliance technique, as are arm bars, you can say arM e bars are more effective, but you can Deny that the other is a both painful and damaging

Cutting up skin doesn't usually cause damage that affects capacity. Torn ligaments do. In both cases, the pain might be useful, but can't be counted on.

 

[veritasAequitas]

I can establish pretty quickly that it's not effective without a compliant partner. I'm not a BJJ'er, and I think they should do something else.

If you watch the video I linked earlier today you can see what I mean when I say they force techniques to work with the framing.

 

[jobo]

Nope. They tap to prevent injury. If the technique only causes pain and does not have the potential to cause real damage, then they will typically not tap.

No they tap to prevent more pain,

 

[jobo]

Cutting up skin doesn't usually cause damage that affects capacity. Torn ligaments do. In both cases, the pain might be useful, but can't be counted on.

So it's a pain compliance technique, it wasn't me that said it was, but it's the only true thing veritas, has said so give him credit, if you don't think it is take it up with him

 

[jobo]

They aren't actually sharp you can gouge and tear with them.

They aren't actually sharp you can gouge and tear with them.

But why? When I can use a technique that doesn't require a ring.

But why? When I can use a technique that doesn't require a ring.

you can say the same for any weapon, yet they seemSurprisingly popular

 

[jobo]

I can establish pretty quickly that it's not effective without a compliant partner. I'm not a BJJ'er, and I think they should do something else.

But Andy who runs dl, is a bjj, master and he disagrees with you, ,perhaps he knows best?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

No they tap to prevent more pain,

I was wondering why in the world you would have the confidence to claim such a thing, given that you have zero experience with the matter at hand and you are talking to someone with decades of experience on the subject.

Then I realized why this conversation seemed so familiar.

 

[veritasAequitas]

But Andy who runs dl, is a bjj, master and he disagrees with you, ,perhaps he knows best?

He's not a master he's a purple belt.

White
Blue
Purple
Brown
Black <-professor
Red/coral <-master

 

[jobo]

He's not a master he's a purple belt.

White
Blue
Purple
Brown
Black <-professor
Red/coral <-master

And what are you ?

 

[jobo]

I was wondering why in the world you would have the confidence to claim such a thing, given that you have zero experience with the matter at hand and you are talking to someone with decades of experience on the subject.

Then I realized why this conversation seemed so familiar.

I have considerable experience in pain

 

[veritasAequitas]

And what are you ?

White in bjj purple in DL doesn't make a difference not teaching

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So it's a pain compliance technique, it wasn't me that said it was, but it's the only true thing veritas, has said so give him credit, if you don't think it is take it up with him

Nope. A pain compliance technique relies solely upon pain. Many destructions can be used as pain-compliance techniques by altering the angle a bit (think finger bends), but they are less reliable as pain compliance than as destructions. Some (larger joints, mostly) can also be applied slowly enough in competition for folks to tap out before they are injured - whether they feel the pain, or not.

No they tap to prevent more pain,

So, you think the pain is more important to them than the potential tear/dislocation/break?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But Andy who runs dl, is a bjj, master and he disagrees with you, ,perhaps he knows best?

As I said, I can demonstrate pretty quickly. Doesn't matter how much BJJ he has (and purple certainly isn't "master") - that ground technique isn't applying much from BJJ.

 

[jobo]

Nope. A pain compliance technique relies solely upon pain. Many destructions can be used as pain-compliance techniques by altering the angle a bit (think finger bends), but they are less reliable as pain compliance than as destructions. Some (larger joints, mostly) can also be applied slowly enough in competition for folks to tap out before they are injured - whether they feel the pain, or not.


So, you think the pain is more important to them than the potential tear/dislocation/break?

Your making up your own rather silly definitions again, there are two qualifications to be pain compliance t
, one that he is in pain and two that he is compliant, if one or both of these is missing it's not pain compLiance , if both are present it clearly is,

Further it's impossible to cause enough pain to make someone complient, with out causing injury, someone with a broken arm, is going to be in quite a lot of pain and if you waddle his broken arm about will be reasonably compliant,