Judging Forms at Tournaments

[Gerry Seymour]

Agreed Its ridiculous so basically If I wanted to I could turn up to a shotokan tournament and enter as a black belt (even though I've never trained it) and just throw my hands around and pretend to know what I'm doing and I could get a gold medal....how's that fair in any way.

If you showed up at a Shotokan tournament, they'd expect to see something that looks much like the Shotokan kata. And there would be principles (as others have pretty clearly pointed out) that would be judged, even in an open competition. So, just throwing your hands around would get nothing. Now, if you assembled an interesting new kata, there's no reason that couldn't win in a competition, so long as you are doing it well, and it feels cohesive.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You couldn't do that at a one style tournament though, all the judges would be Shotokan dan grades and the katas would all be Shotokan so they'd know immediately that you weren't doing it correctly. The problem is the open competitions where multiple styles compete against each other with judges not knowing whether they are correct or not.

Even at the open competitions, it shouldn't be a problem (assuming reasonably similar approaches among the competing styles). Whether a kata is centuries old or brand new shouldn't be relevant in that competition, so if someone makes one up, and it's a good kata, and they perform it well (focus, intent, power, balance, etc.), then it's competing on even footing, as it should be.

 

[Tez3]

Even at the open competitions, it shouldn't be a problem (assuming reasonably similar approaches among the competing styles). Whether a kata is centuries old or brand new shouldn't be relevant in that competition, so if someone makes one up, and it's a good kata, and they perform it well (focus, intent, power, balance, etc.), then it's competing on even footing, as it should be.

He specifically mentioned a Shotokan tournament though which is why I posted as I did. You wouldn't be able to bluff your way through a single style competition.

 

[JR 137]

If you showed up at a Shotokan tournament, they'd expect to see something that looks much like the Shotokan kata. And there would be principles (as others have pretty clearly pointed out) that would be judged, even in an open competition. So, just throwing your hands around would get nothing. Now, if you assembled an interesting new kata, there's no reason that couldn't win in a competition, so long as you are doing it well, and it feels cohesive.

If you showed up at a Shotokan tournament, in pretty much every instance you'd have to perform a Shotokan approved kata. They'd be very little variation allowed; those variations would be different Shotokan schools' variations and not personal variations.

In a nutshell, if it's not on a Shotokan syllabus, it's not allowed. Unless of course there was a "create your own kata" division. I don't see that happening too often in a Shotokan tournament though.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

How can people judge forms they have no knowledge of? If I don't do your style i cannot judge anything that matters about a form.

In Kung Fu tournament, it usually separates

- internal style,
- external style.

In external style, it also separates

- northern style,
- southern style.

In the northern style, it includes:

- long fist,
- preying mantis,
- Baji,
- Pi Gua,
- Lou Han,
- ...

To find one Kung Fu northern style judge who knows all northern styles is impossible.

 

[MA_Student]

Forms are for training and study.

You don't judge a javelin thrower by how nicely they lift weights, you don't go to a football game to watch the players do jumping jacks.

Martial arts are for fighting. People gain other benefits from the training, but the arts exist to help people deal with violence.

When we make a big thing of forms we spread the idea that aesthetics have a place in the martial arts, and they do not. Because the next thing is people start altering forms to look pretty and then mangling techniques to look cool and then you have a dance instead of a fighting art.

A great many karate styles went through this in the 20th century and are only starting to recover.

Yep I competed in forms for a while never got far. Even though my forms are at a good level the guys I was against were doing backflips and jackie chan type stunts whereas I did normal forms how I'd been taught them