Style bashing

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Martial D, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. Martial D

    Martial D Black Belt

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    One point of view - You are bashing my style!

    My point of view - it is harmful and fraudulent to instill in people a false sense of confidence based on nonfunctional BS that will and has gotten many people hurt or killed. It is my duty as a martial artist to dispel these myths wherever I find them.
     
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  2. Headhunter

    Headhunter Master of Arts

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    No it's none of your business what someone does. It's not all about fighting people can do whatever they want who are you to tell them what's good and what's not. You haven't got a duty you do what you do let others do what they want. Thinking you can tell anyone what they can or can't do is just simply arrogant in my eyes.
     
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  3. Martial D

    Martial D Black Belt

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    Ya, who am I to try to help people, and dispel ********. We should just let hucksters and frauds take peoples money, because its nobodies business.

    .......I think not.
     
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  4. Headhunter

    Headhunter Master of Arts

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    If someone enjoys training there that's good for them again none of your business if I want to do something like aikido I'm gonna do it, if you tell me not to I'll tell you where to shove your opinion why would I listen to you how do I know your not the fraud as I said people can do whatever they want none of your business
     
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  5. Martial D

    Martial D Black Belt

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    And as an addendum, its not even JUST that angle. Its also for the integrity of combat arts in general. The longer we, as MAists, turn a blind eye to nonfunctional martial arts being taught, and adopt the live and let live mentality about it, the entire game suffers. I think we should be trying to progress the thing as a whole, and part of that is identifying and cutting loose the fatty bits. Sure, some people that have invested years and decades into such nonsense might come away with hurt feelings (hi headhunter), but omelettes are worth the broken eggs.
     
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  6. Martial D

    Martial D Black Belt

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    Im not telling anyone not to do anything. I just think people should be educated. If you walk out of aikido class thinking you are equipt to deal with a street situation by it, you are worse off than if you had 0 training at all. False confidence kills a lot of people. I don't think its right to scam people at all, especially not as it could pertain to life or death.
     
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  7. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

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    Aikido is a scam? sigh..
     
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  8. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

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    No, those days are ending anyways. Information is free to anyone, anywhere at anytime. If you think your instructor is teaching techniques wrong you can pull up 100 other instructors doing the same technique on your phone. If a school lies and uses shady business practices online reviews will tell you.

    Martial arts is as diverse as team sports. Some are functional in real world, others are combat sports, some are just to look pretty, some are just to improve your health.

    So much of the style bashing that goes on really comes across as Football players bashing basketball players because they are terrible at tackling each other. Who cares, have fun, do what you do and recognize that not everyone has the same goals as you. If they are achieving what they want to achieve then they are doing great, doesn't matter if they are failing miserably at doing something else.

    Martial artists seem to want to be everything to everyone... and we can't. We shouldn't try.

    It's just like any other industry, do what you do, deliver on the promises you make and don't try to create a product that is perfect for every possible need. Think about it, try to make a car that is perfect for everyone. Lamborghini's suck, they can't go off road, have very little ability to haul things and you can't fit a family in them. SUV's suck, they won't win any races against even low end sports cars. etc.

    Yet so many martial arts schools try to sell you on the fact that they are great for fitness... yet everyone is out of shape. Or they are useful for self-defence, and teach no real self-defence. Or they teach lifeskill ______, because that's what the mom wants when they have no real process of doing so.

    Deliver on the promises you make and all is good. Don't sell me a sports car when I need something that can go off road because that's what you have though.
     
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  9. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

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    The best instruction in any style, regardless of that style, is a scam IF they sell you on a promise they can't deliver. I pull a Bill and Ted and bring Jigoro Kano back to run a school, it's a scam if I tell you he will make you a good boxer, or teach you sport karate because your studying acting and want to get into action movies / shows.
     
  10. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

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    Has some one sold you on a promise they could not deliver?
     
  11. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

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    Fortunately for me I run the school, I'm the one making the promises, so I try to only make the ones we deliver on.

    But in our industry it's pretty common for schools teaching completely different things in completely different ways to have the exact same list of bullet points of benefits. Hell a lot even use the same website company to give them the exact same website right down to the same testimonials.

    My belief is that we should celebrate our diversity, not try to be catch all solutions for everything.
     
  12. MI_martialist

    MI_martialist Blue Belt

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    For example?

     
  13. Headhunter

    Headhunter Master of Arts

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    And you think you have the right to tell people what to do because you're such an expert? Aren't you a Kung fu guy who doesn't even know his own lineage....how do you know what works and what doesn't have you trained the styles you're insulting or is it just guess work
     
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  14. Headhunter

    Headhunter Master of Arts

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    Absolutely I mean I'm doing Jiu Jitsu now and I know it's more of a sport based setting and I know it's got limitations but I enjoy it and have fun doing it so who cares. To many people think they have the right to tell people what to do. I mean martial d says I shouldn't train my style I can say he shouldn't train his what makes his opinion worth more than mine
     
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  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

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    That would be more useful if you were talking to the prospective student. Talking to the huckster doesn't do much.
     
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  16. Headhunter

    Headhunter Master of Arts

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    Hurt feelings? Lol I'm more than happy with what I've done and do you really think I care about what you think of the styles I do. If you tried to tell me what I do is rubbish I'd just laugh at you because I wouldn't care less
     
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  17. MI_martialist

    MI_martialist Blue Belt

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    Well, your profile is limited, please tell us what your experience is.

     
  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

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    This is one of those areas where there's a lot of grey. There are things that work (have even been found so by those who have to use them in live situations), which are foreign to others and seem problematic to them. Then there are things that are demonstrably incorrect. Where we can separate them, it's not an evil thing to call out the stuff that doesn't work, if only to get people thinking.

    But if we get stuck in calling out anything that we don't like - without regard for what evidence there may be that it actually works - then we get into a murky area.

    And, of course, there's also the problem of recognizing goals. As some folks have pointed out to me, not everyone trains for fighting ability. For those folks, anything that's not causing injury is okay, even if it's entirely ineffective (from a combat perspective).
     
  19. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    What are your qualifications for deciding what works and what doesn't? What if someone looking at you and what you do decides you are wrong and you are misleading students etc? Is an instructor who genuinely believes what he was taught works and so teaches his students a fraud then? Is someone who does a softer style than yours a hucksters because you don't think it works? How do you prove what others teach doesn't work?
     
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  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

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    There's a recurring issue with this. There are some schools that teach in a method that I can't see as producing effective technique in less than 2 years (not to mention some truly bad schools, as all MA will have, even if only briefly). And there are folks who have used Aikido (here, referring to Ueshiba's art) effectively in self-defense, LEO situations, and other live usage. Somewhere between those two are some real answers, including some number (a lot? - I don't know) of schools where good technique is taught in an effective way, but this middle is often ignored. Confirmation bias makes it pretty easy to argue both cases.
     

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